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| Table Saw vs Band Saw http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=15159 |
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| Author: | wyodave [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:36 pm ] |
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Just read some opinions on using a band saw only instead of a table saw on the site "Sawmill Creek". Seems that some say that a bandsaw will do everything a table saw will. Space is at a premium in my shop, a better band saw seems to make more sense, maybe. Do any of you use a band saw for everything? If so, what accessories would you get for the BS to make it an "all around saw"? Dave |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:41 pm ] |
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A good table saw is the heart of every shop. I would buy a table saw over a band saw any day but this is only my opinion. |
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| Author: | FishtownMike [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:53 pm ] |
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How would you cut the curved parts you need for a guitar on a tablesaw? Like tops, backs and necks. I feel for guitar making the bandsaw is the powertool that should be first on your list. I have a tablesaw also. I build furnuture projects and it a must for that. But for guitar building i feel the bandsaw is number 1. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:56 pm ] |
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I had limited space too and bought a band saw and it can do all I do just fine. I bought a table saw too and in time realized that I just never used it so it was relegated to the garage and then given away. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:04 pm ] |
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I'm with Tim; I'd give up my bandsaw long before the table saw.... Look closely at the guitar, and there really aren't that many curved pieces, yet most of it is straight. Look past the shape itself. Heck, I don't even rough cut my tops and backs on the bandsaw anymore... I go weeks on end without touching the bandsaw, yet not a day goes by that I don't use the table saw. |
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| Author: | MikeM [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:10 pm ] |
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I would start with a bandsaw. I have been woodworking as a hobby for about 4 years now and only playing in the luthier area for about 2, so take this with an appropriate grain of salt. I gave this question a lot of thought when I started out and I decided to skip the tablesaw and go with the best bandsaw I could afford. The bandsaw is a tool I can not live without (curved cuts, resawing) and can do a many of the things I would do on a table saw. I admit there are things that can only be done properly on a table saw, and I know that many woodworkers with more experience than myself think of the table saw at the heart of the shop, however I have not regretted the choice. Having said all that, I am planning on breaking down and buying a small table saw next year to help me build some cabinets. Cutting plywood with a circular saw is a drag. Mike. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:14 pm ] |
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The table saw really is one of the most versatile tools in the woodworkers quiver. I use my table saw considerably more than my bandsaw as well. The one thing you can't get from a bandsaw that you can from a table saw is an edge which is ready for gluing right after the cut. With a bandsaw, you'll always have to level a glue surface with sandpaper or a plane, where as if you have a good blade, many parts are ready to glue right off the table saw. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:19 pm ] |
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I've been a bandsaw owner for all of three weeks. I've been making molds for the past week, and a table saw wouldn't be of much help. But I can tell you that the bandsaw's not designed to rip lumber. I had to rip some pieces, and it worked, but not nearly as quickly or accurately as a cabinet saw. I ran the shop in college one summer making mathematic puzzles for the math ed. dept.'s workshops. I had to produce thousands of triangles, rectangles, cubes, etc. for manipulatives and spacial visualization puzzles. I was at the table saw for hours at a time pushing jigs back and forth. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:40 pm ] |
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I'm just the opposite of Tim, Mario, and Rod. I use my 2 band saws constantly throughout the day, while the table saw takes up a great deal of space and may get used once or twice a month. It's also worth noting that I repair rather than build. I'm constantly going to the band saw for cutting bone, small chunks of patch wood, pickguards, dowels, brass, aluminum, and plastics for tools and jigs, cauls, you name it. My primary wood band saw is probably the second most used tool in my shop after my main belt sander. It's just extremely versatile, especially suited for smaller parts that I'm often working with. I'm sure if I were building more I would be using my table saw much more often. Even in the hundred and some instruments I've built in the past however, I think the only time I used a table saw was to dado the truss rod slot. In my shop I use the table saw primarily for bookshelves and benches, and rarely for anything directly guitar related. I don't think I could get by without a band saw though. We're not helping your decision making much, are we. 
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:42 pm ] |
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both. They are best friends. |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:03 pm ] |
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Hey Dave, My vote is for a good quality bandsaw. I am a full-time builder and I don't have a table saw -- not enough room in my small shop for one. If I had the space I would absolutely have a table saw but in my opinion, they are not necessary. On the other hand, there is no way I could be doing what I'm doing without my bandsaw. It has been indispensable in terms of making jigs, molds, etc... The only thing I an unequipped to do is slot the fretboards. I could do this by hand but I believe the results are much more accurate if done on a table saw. This is the only operation I don't do myself. With a lot of experience on the bandsaw, I have become quite competent on the machine. If you can set the saw up to cut accurately, I think you will find that there are few things you can't do on the bandsaw. Sure there a number of things that might be much easier to do on the tablesaw but I think you will find that you CAN still get them done on the bandsaw. All the best, Simon |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:04 pm ] |
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I've never had a table saw but can't do without my band saw. Actually I am considering a table saw for certain things such as fret slotting! |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:13 pm ] |
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I built my first 30 or so guitars without a band saw.... I could build the next 300 without one, too. Nobody's answered yet. How many curved pieces are there in a guitar? |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:32 pm ] |
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How many curved pieces are there in a guitar. I'll take a stab at it, depends some what on the shape of the body though Tail block may have a curve, Head block may have a curve, if there's a cutaway may be curved as well Fretboard is curved Bridge usually has some curve on the top Sides of course are curved The back side of the neck is curved as well as the transition from the heel to the neck shaft Every single one of these curves though don't require a bandsaw or a table saw to make, remember there hasn't been power tools available for making guitars or furniture for much more than 100 years and many parts of the guitar can be cut with hand tools. Having said all this, I think the bandsaw has one advantage over the table saw, maybe two but that's it. One, it can cut a curve, second it can re-saw wider pieces than a table saw can. Other than that, ever try ripping a sheet of plywood in half on a bandsaw? The quality of cut is really something that should be considered with the comparison. The bandsaw just doesn't cut as accurately as a table saw can. There's always some additional finishing required on the edge cut by a bandsaw. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:37 pm ] |
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The quality of cut is really something that should be considered with this comparison. The bandsaw just doesn't cut as accurately or as cleanly as a table saw can. There's always some additional preparation required on the edge cut by a bandsaw. |
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| Author: | j.Brown [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:54 pm ] |
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7 1/4" Thin Kerf Freud blade available at most home improvement/hardware stores. At least thats what I remember. I haven't bought mine yet, but I intend to. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:57 pm ] |
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Tail block may have a curve, But you wouln't cut that curve on a saw Head block may have a curve, if there's a cutaway may be curved as well Same again, you wouldn't cut that curve on a saw Fretboard is curved One more time, that curve isn't cut on any saw Bridge usually has some curve on the top The top side of the bridge, if curved, isn't cut on a saw Sides of course are curved Ah ha! We have one. But this one's easily cut with a $10 jig saw and fine blade. Or with a template and Zip cutter in a router jig. The back side of the neck is curved as well as the transition from the heel to the neck shaft We don't carve a neck with a saw; the heel transition does use a saw if we have one handy. See my point? While there are a few places where the band saw is very handy, they are actually very rare. The table saw cuts straighter, cleaner, truer than a band saw. and with a few home made jigs, it can do so much more, and yes, even cut curves and the radius of neck and end blocks. And a good carbide table saw blade can cost under $20, lasts for years, and takes one minute to change. I'm glad I have both, but if I only had to have one...... In fact, I have 2 table saws.... . |
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| Author: | Jebarri [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:20 pm ] |
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This is just my experience but I would definitely say bandsaw, I rarely use the table saw but use the bandsaw a lot! |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:30 pm ] |
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Mario, I think the reality here is that you learn to work with what you have and we all have our own way of doing things. Since I don't have a table saw, I have managed to figure out ways to do things on my bandsaw very effectively that are probably most easily done on a table saw. Also, I have incorporated a number of processes that help my productivity that simply couldn't be done on a table saw - at least, the way I build my guitars. In particular, I use a router table a tremendous amount, primarily with template bits and for neck profiling, etc... It is paramount that I am able to cut most of the excess away before I take a router bit to the work to prevent the bit from taking to much off and catching the workpiece. I just know that for how I build my guitars - many of the operations I do could not be done on a table saw and are much more easily done on a bandsaw. In retrospect, the methods I use would obviously be a product of the tooling that I have. And I have learned to be far more effective and productive with my bandsaw. A bunch of my jigs and templates are made by freehand cutting on the bandsaw. I guess one could use a jigsaw and a file -- but in my experience making jigs, a bandsaw has been incredibly useful. Ultimately, there is no right answer to Dave's question. However, I still feel that a bandsaw offers more versatility than a table saw and is an extremely important tool in my workshop. Dave, hopefully we haven't confused you too much. All the best, Simon |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:51 pm ] |
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I have two bandsaws and one table saw, I use the bandsaws all of the time for a host of cutting jobs. The table saw spends 99 days out of a 100 with the blade fully retracted and wood piled on the table as handy storage space, as it's rarely used now that I have all the jigs made that I use. Get the bandsaw. Colin |
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| Author: | Kim [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:34 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Rod True] The back side of the neck is curved as well as the transition from the heel to the neck shaft [/QUOTE] But with a little imagination most anything is possible on a tablesaw: 
These shots where taken in none other than William Cumpiano's shop with Dave Alex at the saw. I believe the recipe is 7 1/4" blade for a classical contour and a 10" blade for a steel string. Fine if you wish to go that way but a good sharp chisel can hog off a lot of wood quicker and probably a little safer also. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Kim [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:49 pm ] |
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Oh, best add that the above method can be quite dangerous, you are using the blade of a table-saw as a shaper. Therefore you are in fact feeding the material across the blade and not into the blade as designed. If you wish to have a go at this you will need to make sure that your saw is not under powered and that you only touch feed about 1/16" at a time. Steady, steady will keep the stuff that is not meant to be cut where it belongs. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:05 pm ] |
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Being a hobby builder I certainly 'could live without' both, but I think I use both of my band saws and cabinet saw equally much, as has been said I think of them as best friends. I think the type and quality of the tool has something to do with it too; since I did a proper, thorough tuning of my cabinet saw and installed a 'professional' Biesmeyer fence it is a very accurate, clean cutting tool. I have one 12" and one 24" band saw, and between them I can do a wide range of operations. |
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| Author: | J.L.K. Vesa [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:26 pm ] |
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Back in my cabinet making days I got used to work with one like this: http://www.stilesshop.com/images/altendorf_f45select-lg.jpg digital/hydraulic fence and blade control and all, and I loved it. now I have a shop so small that I can only have a small band saw and that is ok for me right now, but I agree with all of you who find a good table saw to be a really effective and multitasking tool. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:39 pm ] |
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OK, I'm a guy who has to have a great bandsaw because of all the resawing I do. BUT....a tablesaw is the heart of any shop. That's the first purchase I made, and the first that any woodworker should make as well. Of course, a lot of stuff can be replaced with a good cnc... |
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