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Glue up Kerfing quick, your style?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=15202		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  BlackHeart [ Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:18 am ]
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I am using a simple technique I figured out because I use HHG and the time factor.


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  I           ;           ;  I           ;           ;     I           ;        I


(Sorry Im not uploading a pic) 


1.Basicly I set the Kerfing to the height I want DRY and CLAMP


2. Then I glue on little wood spacers to hit the bottom of the kerfing, like 3 or 4, with only a TINY DOT of AR glue near the  top.  1/8th Square X 1/2 inch long


3.Then after I glue and clamp the lining, I take off the glued little sticks using leverage (8 minutes max), hit with hot water rag, glue comes right off.


Perfectly adjusted Kerfing. (Kerfing is the name LMI uses)


Just wondering what everyone else uses, the books I have just say 'glue in lining".


  
Author:  KenH [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:22 am ]
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Just wanted to bump this one up a little. I use titebond, so I dont have these issues but I am interested in how others handle this.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:46 am ]
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Sounds like a good process. I use to use titebond but now fish glue on my linings, so working time is not much of a issue for me.

We wont go into the whole noun vs. verb issue but dang it I have a good one "liner" reply. (pun intended) said with love in my heart and a grin on my face
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:04 am ]
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Why bother with HHG when Titebond. LMI white and Fishglue are so easy and work so well?
What advantage could HHG give you on linings that makes it worth the extra effort?
Author:  BlackHeart [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:18 am ]
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[QUOTE=SteveS]Why bother with HHG when Titebond. LMI white and Fishglue are so easy and work so well?
What advantage could HHG give you on linings that makes it worth the extra effort?[/QUOTE]


 


So are you saying HHG could be used on soundboards to get its bennefits, and that the side kerfle (my new word) doesnt matter really what glue you use?


 


SOme HHG guys better back this up!


I think this method would work with any glue, you basicly dont have to fudge around at all, it pops in to the exact height if your careful.
Author:  BlackHeart [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:30 am ]
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I notch them so I can get a blade under them. I just had lots of problems with eveness. I also use the "quick glue" for putting a handle on bridge plates, you can graps it and it shoves right in the slot with leverage, then pop off the handle.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:31 am ]
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[QUOTE=SteveS] Why bother with HHG when Titebond. LMI white and Fishglue are so easy and work so well?
What advantage could HHG give you on linings that makes it worth the extra effort?[/QUOTE]

If your effort in using HHG on kerfed liners is stressing you out then you should use something simpler. And if you don't understand why a glue that sets up to a crystalline, glass hard surface that won't cold flow then use one that sets up with a softer, amorphous surface with a lower durometer and has a tendency to cold flow over time. It's hardly "extra effort" for me anymore but I consider the effort to be worthwhile.

I spread glue on one surface with a brush for about 1/4 of one side length, clamp the suckers and then move on to the next section. It sets up fast and draws the liners into the surface of the sides and doesn't slip around....a real advantage IMO...and that's why I "bother" with HHG. And after 5 years and 8 guitars with 90% of my joints having been made with HHG and NO failures, I'll continue to "bother" to use HHG. Yes...I admit it...I'm a HHG snob!

I feel very relaxed with no stress and with the knowledge that I am using a glue that has stood the test of time since the days of the pyramids. Why do we always seem to have to justify it to those who probably have not taken the time to properly evaluate and learn to use the stuff?

There's always Fish Glue for the faint-hearted! ...Actually a good alternate to HHG and something I plan to use on tops and backs.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:32 am ]
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[QUOTE=SteveS] Why bother with HHG when Titebond. LMI white and Fishglue are so easy and work so well?
What advantage could HHG give you on linings that makes it worth the extra effort?[/QUOTE]

What Steve said.
Author:  Hesh [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:28 am ]
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What Howard said......

JJ and I have debated this a number of times and what it comes down to in the end, in my view, is what you are most comfortable working with.  JJ has a mastery of HHG application that I don't and he has a track record of no failures. 

I am in the camp that which glue you use to glue on your "kerfed linings" will make no difference one way or the other acoustically speaking.  So I use Titebond and will perhaps use Fish glue too at some point.

I will say though that if your methodology does not permit you to make consistently excellent and timely HHG joints its a mistake to use HHG.
Author:  Steve Saville [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:58 am ]
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[QUOTE=JJ Donohue] ....if you don't understand why a glue that sets up to a crystalline........   [/QUOTE] Hey HHG snob.   
I understand the difference in glues and how they work. I do not understand how that will make even a small difference on linings to use HHG.
In stressed joints, I get it.
Maybe there is a benefit that I don't understand, but I haven't heard of many stories of lining failures. I don't believe that anyone has done a study to examine the tonal enhancements of HHG vs. Titebond for adhering linings.
Do you think that anyone could hear the difference?
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:09 am ]
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I used HHG on the linings of the guitar I'm building now and had a little difficulty at first until I got it figured out.I agree with JJ on using hide glue.I love the stuff.Like JJ said ,Its a time tested glue and once I got the hang of it ,it's no bother at all.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:23 am ]
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Compared to fish glue, hide glue is easier to clean up and does not tie up the lining clamps for nearly as long. I have time to wait however, so fish for me! Fish glue also has much higher 'tack' than Titebond, another thing I find benieficial.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:48 am ]
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No, its just you
Author:  James W B [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:34 am ]
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I`m in your camp Todd.Beautifully said.
                James W B
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:42 am ]
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Todd...interesting thought but I'm not so sure I agree with your hypothesis. I would imagine that those who use HHG for the vast majority of joints are the same folks who make their own bridges, FB's, necks, headplates, use hand tools, etc.

In my case, I think it's a more relaxed pace of building and an unhurried approach that attracts me to the idea of doing as much as possible and learning as many woodworking skills now that I wish I had learned decades ago! I'm still a novice in so many ways.



Author:  Todd [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:45 am ]
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Fish and Hide for everything works fine for me and mine.

Todd
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 pm ]
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Well after much procrastination and with the gentle prodding of all you guys I glued on my first bridge with HG recently.  I had been using LMI white for pretty much everything.  Great stuff! I'm hooked. I'll definitely start using it for joining plates, and top braces.  Wish I'd taken the plunge sooner.
I probably still use LMI for linings though.  I've had no glue related failures with it and it appears to dry rock hard and crystalline.
Terry
Author:  BlackHeart [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:46 pm ]
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Ok, well then if you want to use HHG to do the kerfle, use the 'Blackheart Placement sticks". I sell them now for $3.00 a dozen.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:03 pm ]
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[QUOTE=BlackHeart]

Ok, well then if you want to use HHG to do the kerfle, use the 'Blackheart Placement sticks". I sell them now for $3.00 a dozen.

[/QUOTE]

This is a joke...right?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:10 pm ]
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Why, JJ, you want some.  Sounds fair to me.


Author:  grumpy [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:25 pm ]
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My work here is done. I proudly pass the scepter to JJ.


.

.

Here's your new avatar, Sir.
Author:  JJ Donohue [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:08 am ]
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Hey Mario...you flatter me but I hardly think we've had enough of your personal touch. Nonetheless I'll try the avatar on for size and wear it proudly.

BTW...that's the grumpiest-looking puppy I have ever seen. Is that a new addition and replacement?

...and about those socks lying around...
Author:  Hesh [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:10 am ]
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Author:  Dave White [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:26 am ]
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[QUOTE=grumpy] My work here is done. I proudly pass the scepter to JJ.. [/QUOTE]

Mario,

Did you use hhg so stick that pup down? Seems to be working well
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:32 am ]
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i wonder what glues sticks better on a CNCd surface 
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