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| clamps for liners http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=15228 |
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| Author: | Heath Blair [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:39 pm ] |
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i was just contemplating spending some money on some clamps dedicated to the glue up of kerfed liners. ive seen everything from clothes pins to... you name it. i know just about anything will work, but in your experience, what has worked best for you? obviously, cost is an issue, but so is performance. i was thinking about these: http://www.hobbytool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&P rodID=9 pretty cheap for a whole bunch of them. i was checking out what i believe are the same clamps at home depot. it seemed like there was a decent amount of clamping force, but then ive never glued any liners up, so im not sure how much force is required. any thoughts? |
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| Author: | Allen McFarlen [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:37 pm ] |
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They look pretty good to me, if not for kerfing they would be handy for all kinds of jobs. I'd buy them if they were in Australia. I just use cloths pins, but they're not all created equal. I managed to find some large ones that use a metal band as the spring, not a wound wire that is more common. They're cheap and work great, but I have to keep looking for them 'cause the wife keeps stealing them for the laundry. 
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| Author: | David R White [ Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:52 pm ] |
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I use a combo of clothes pins, some of the LMI clamps, and some plastic spring clamps. The clothes pins don't have enough force on some of the tighter bends. My gut feel is those metal clamps may have too much pressure, it's hard to say without having them in your hand though. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:31 am ] |
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I use Gem Clips which fit reversed kerfed linings very well and they are cheap too.  |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:32 am ] |
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I use the larger spring clamps for the straighter areas, and the wood LMI clamps for the curves. They need to be beefed up with extra rubber bands. They do seem to fit reverse kerf lining pretty well though. I'm still looking for the perfect clamp. Those clamps actually don't look too bad, hard to go wrong at that price. Terry |
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| Author: | Cricket [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:49 am ] |
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Staples GEM clamps too! Triangular and RKerf |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:53 am ] |
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I wish I could still find those old clothes pins made of wood and with a strong steel spring. The modern plastic ones are too flimsy and I dont like clips at all (sorry Hesh) But clips have to do ftm. What I dont like about them is that they are too wide. Half of them would be terrific |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:14 am ] |
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Steel spring clamps like these work great but 2" are too large I have 50 1" and they work just fine on Mahogany and Basswood by mash the heck out of Cedar if your not carfull. That said the throat depth they mention is 3/4" that is the same as my 1" and the picture looks more like 1" clamps than 2". Generally you sized spring clamps by the width of the blades for lack of a better term. 1" will be 1" wide 2" will be 2" wide. but I am guessing that these are 2" long x 1' wide with 3/4" throat. If I am right then they will work fine |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:18 am ] |
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Even the wood ones with the heaver gauge springs don't give the clamping pressure I like with out adding rubber-bands to the them. Wal-mart caries them in bags of 50 if your looking |
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:25 am ] |
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Mines are 1 inch too. They grab well on 8-10mm stock but I dont like them at the waist. |
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| Author: | Akvarn [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:38 am ] |
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Hi, First I would like to say that this is a very nice forum. Glad I found it.  I am currently building my first guitar and used some clamps like those for the kerfed lining. I struggeled finding clothes pins with strong enough springs and these worked nicely. Probably not exactly the same, though, since I live in Norway... Aasmund |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:39 am ] |
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I like these plastic spring clamps. The only problem is you'll find a few of them very strong and some weak. But, most are A-ok. 
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| Author: | Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 1:41 am ] |
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Welcome Aasmund! I hope your guitar will turn out nice and you'll want to build more..and more.. :) |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:36 am ] |
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Welcome, Aasmund, to the OLF. I haven't done it yet, but I bought a bunch of Gem Clips, like Hesh, and lined them with self stick cork bought at a craft shop. 1 piece lined about 40 clips. I also have some old clothes pins that I could use in tight places, since they aren't as wide as the clips. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:08 am ] |
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Heath, that is what I use. They work great. I use a double thick lining when gluing, this keeps the liner that is glued in unmared. 
I have had the gem clips stain basswood linings, and also crush them. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:19 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Akvarn] Hi,First I would like to say that this is a very nice forum. Glad I found it.
[/QUOTE] Hei Asmund, du er nordmann nummer 2 her savidt jeg vet. Velkommen! Hvor bor du? Hey, its not that often that we get new members from Norway... Anyways, the lining clamps that I like best are just like Lance's (I buy them at Clas Ohlson or Biltema, Asmund). I have tried smaller spring clamps, clothes pins, the plastic ones with swiveling jaws, paper clips... I have not tried John Watkins "Taylor style" clamps, but I bet they work well. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:53 am ] |
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The best thing about the plastic ones is all the pretty colors you can get. I believe that the color choices has an important impact on tone equal to the choice of adhesive used in the linings.
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| Author: | Akvarn [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 am ] |
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AlexM, WaddyT and Arnt: Thanks. I'm already planning number two and possibly number three. I frequently visit the stores you just mentioned, Arnt. Good sources for not too expensive tools. I bought these clamps there. (Jeg bor i Honefoss.) Aasmund |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:21 am ] |
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Yea but the spring tension sucks Popsicles.
I got about a 100 of those I use to use. |
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| Author: | KenH [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:50 am ] |
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I use a combination of the gem clips and wooden clothes pins. Most of my reversed linings are either mahogany or spanish cedar. I dont have issues with leaving clamp marks or staining on either of these woods. One thing I can advise about the metal spring clamps: Some of these clamps have a sharp projection on the inside clamping surface that will actually bite into the wood. I had bought a couple of these to use in tight places, and when I removed them they had left indentations in the wood where the little sharp projection stuck into the wood. As long as you get the ones that have a smooth clamping surface, you will be fine with them. |
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| Author: | Hank Mauel [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:10 am ] |
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[QUOTE=DaveAndy] I like these plastic spring clamps. The only problem is you'll find a few of them very strong and some weak. But, most are A-ok.
[/QUOTE]
I've used this style, too, for about 8 years with great success. The nice thing is that the "feet" pivot so they apply an even pressure to the angle of the lining while staying flat against the outside of the guitar rim. And they will work on any style lining because of those pivoting feet. The comment about the occassional "weak" clamp is correct. However, since you can often find them in bulk at a tool supply store you can hand pick them and test squeeze as you go to get a fairly consistent set. However, I have found the even the "less taught" units will still hold the lining against the straighter areas of the side bends with adequate force. I have about a 150 of them and can do the entire edge of 2 instruments at a time. If you plan on one-at-a-time then you'll need 60-75 of them. |
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| Author: | BlackHeart [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:35 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Hank Mauel] [QUOTE=DaveAndy] I like these plastic spring clamps. The only problem is you'll find a few of them very strong and some weak. But, most are A-ok. With the clothespins you could cut them to match better on a bandsaw, and increase their strength by adding a wood ship to the outside, as said, at Walmart for $4.00 bag of 50. But these adjust to the angle, these are my choice. |
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| Author: | DP LaPlante [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:55 am ] |
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I was lucky to have inherited an entire bag (you know the old ones with the wire loop that slid along the clothesline) of wooden clothes pins. I think the spring clamps can be hard to use because they can be too weak or too strong.....I like these little Irwin quick grips. They are small, light and have swiveling jaws. Also you can regulate the pressure from very light to quite tight.
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:16 am ] |
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One thing I will warn you about on the plastic spring clamps, and it has little to do with "IF" they get the job done. And that is that they fatigue quite easy and will break just past the spring at the clamp end. I know this because I have used the ones Wal*mart sells, The ones Harbor Freight sells, the ones Sears sells and Ace Hardware sells. They all seem to have this same more than occasional flaw. It is a weak spot where the springs arm leverages against the clamps jaw. Sooner or later they let go and fatigue the plastic. Now I have many of these that have lasted years. but better than 50% have broken on me. The higher the spring tension or the accidentally letting them snap close, the more frequent the failure. Now I have had my set of 1" (wide) steel spring clamps for 5 years now. Not one has failed and i never expect them to. Also don't fool your self into thinking the pivot foot gives consistent clamping pressure across the whole foot. They don't The clamping force is much stronger at the point of the pivot and is very light at the inside edge of the foot the steper the angle. This is not a huge deal but if you use triangular linings you will want to be aware of where you are applying the force as it is easy with the plastic pivoting feet to get all the force on the bottom of the lining and very little actually near the top of the rim. I know it sounds like I am viciously bashing the plastic spring clamps. I really am not. They are OK and will get the job done. Plus they are relatively cheap. But for my money the failure rate and inherent issues with the plastic fatiguing diminish their value when compared with quality steel spring clamps or even better the Watkins clamps fitted for the type of lining you use. To me you get the quality you pay for. Now for each of us there is a point of diminishing value, that is why I personally did not buy Watkins clamps. However I plan on doing this the majority of the rest of my life, so a tool that will last as long as I do is important to me. But I started with close pins with rubber bands then the plastic spring clamps. So I do understand starting cheaply but the longer you do this the more important quality tools will become. Just set back and watch. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:17 am ] |
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I've done well with the 1" spring clamps from Grizzly, with a few smaller clamps for odd spots. I've also found that in the waist or cutaway it's hard to get enough clamps in; in those spots I use a big spring clamp from the other side, with a stick of wood to transfer the pressure to the liner. I have a bunch of the style Steve S shows, but found them too weak. |
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