Official Luthiers Forum!

The reason I ask is because I have seen several discussions on this forum regarding birch ply end blocks. It seems that most builders are moving away from mahogany blocks to cheaper and more stable birch ply. I'm thinking of offering these for sale, but don't want to waste my time if there is not enough interest. What if I offered them at 5 for $12.50 or 10 for $20? LMI sells mahogany end block for $4.80.
Tracy

Ok, what about this...I offer custom radiused end blocks for $3 each. You send me your drawing and we match the end block radius to your sides. Maybe you have to buy multiples to make it worth our while, but just an idea.
Tracy

Tracy,

Actually...what I would prefer is a cnc cut sanding block shaped to the curve of the lower bout for sanding the curve into the endblock....any chance that could happen (if there is interest)?

I think it would be possible. Let me check with my CNC guy to see if it is possible. He has already created the Radius program, but not sure how small of a concave radius he can cut. I'll let you know.
Tracy

Tracy,

Sounds good....let me know what the cost would be. I can supply the drawings (rhino, dxf, etc.)if needed.

Thanks!

I'm interested in the custom radius block made of birch ply. I see no advantage to using anything other than a ply block on that end. Its stronger, lighter and less apt to split. It's also a pain to contour.

John

John,
I hear you, it may take time to get the program written for a convex radius. Russ' idea should be easy to implement because we already have the program for this. For a custom block like the one Russ is suggesting, I'm thinking because it is custom, and will require an exact fitting, it may take some time so it will probably be around $40 for one of these custom blocks. I'm guessing it will be 2.25" thick, 6" tall, and 4" wide. What do you think?
Tracy

Tracy,

Add my name to those who would be interested in the end blocks. A perfect radious every time would be a big bonus.

Jeff

I'd like either end blocks or sanding cauls.

Or a jig that makes multiple radiuses...that works on any combo sander, edge sander, or shaper, or ummm... OK, I'll stop there...

Just the blocks or cauls Trace...

I am truly dissapointed in this.

Y'all are thinking of buying end blocks? A simple, end block?

Geeze, kids, where does it stop? Why not just buy Martin kits and assemble them? Or, or, easier yet, buy the guitar already done! there's an idea, a completed guitar. Wow, no work to do at all! Who'd have thunk it?....

Get my point? Where will all this lead to? You're buying jigs pre-made, forms pre made, bindings pre made, rosettes pre made, right down to the phargling end blocks!?! Then you pack it all up and send it to a finisher, and a week later have a shiny guitar?

When I was 6 years old, I was assembling plastic models of 57 Chevy's that required more in-depth workmanship.

I'm sorry, but if you can't, or won't, make a simple end block, you don't deserve to be making instruments. Go plant a garden, from pre-potted plants, no less, surrounded by your lovely lawn that was installed by a team of immigrants using sod....

Really; I'm ashamed to see that it has gotten to this. I'm not up on a soapbox; I'm on the shop floor screaming at all of you. The shame....

edit:

Don't get me wrong; there are plenty of things that makes sense to buy pre-made; fretting templates, even pre-slotted fretboards, pre-cut inlays by a profesional artist(Graig!)maybe pre-carved necks, etc..., if for the right reasons. Even thicknessed tops and backs if you only make one or two a year and don't have access to a thickness sander. But end blocks? You're losing me on that one.Mario38461.9421759259

Mario,
I'm laughing right now, not at you, but at the way you put things. I do agree it is getting ridiculous. However, if the community has a need, then someone should be there to fill that need. Actually, I'm not planning on offering end blocks per se, rather the pre-radiused blocks that do take some time out of the build process. I'm planning on offering the end blocks pre-radiused to your shape, or I will offer a jig that is used to shape the end block radius of the side to your custom radius. If I'm a betting man, I would say that you have some form of a jig to get accurate radius' on your end blocks. This is what people are after. At least that is my impression.
Tracy

I do, pencil, sander, a little time. there isn't (in my case anyway on what I do) that much radii in the endblock. But I guess whatever one needs or think they need, I sure have plenty of the pre made jigs for the neck and end wedge, but even I draw line somewhere

Oh come on Mario. Don't be so condescending. What does it matter to
you if some people want a jig that will help them get a nice radius on the
end blocks? I want one! Well I have some, but whatever.... guess I'll just
go send off my kit guitar to my finish guy and get back my shiny guitar
later. Maybe I'l pick up a snap together model car and really challenge
myself......

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

[QUOTE=Mario]
I'm sorry, but if you can't, or won't, make a simple end block, you don't deserve to be making instruments.[/QUOTE]

I not sure if my desire to help a vendor here at the OLF truely warrented a response such as that.

You know, buy some items from a vendor, it is good for them. They support the OLF, and that helps out here. I get a few end blocks that I can use, good for me. It seemed like a win-win deal for everyone involved.


Jeff

rather the pre-radiused blocks that do take some time out of the build process

You mean it takes time from the gluing process <g>

As I said, I'm not against buying some pre-made jigs/templates and a few parts, but everyone here should be able to cut a piece of plywood into a rectangle and sand a radius into it.

Making that simple little end block should be fun; it isn't a complex piece. Assembling and completing an instrument is only part of the enjoyment; making the parts should also be part of it. In fact, the journey leading to the completed instrument should be THE most interesting part. All these shortcuts are only serving to reduce your time enjoying the good stuff. Unless yuo're on a deadline to deliver the next 23 guitars by June 15th, making the parts should not be a chore; it should be the reason you head to the shop after your day at the Day Job. Otherwise, you're only gluing stuff together, like if you were merely an employee on an assembly line. What fun is that? Relaxing?

John, I wasn't being condescending(you, on the other hand, are...); I'm dissapointed. Dissapointed in the attitude of "let's buy this jig and let's buy this part" that is becoming way too rampant. In your videos, do you not show folks how to build a guitar? Do you not show how to make end blocks, braces, shape a neck, etc..? Or do you simply show them where to buy jigs and parts, then glue them together? I'm sure it's the former, right?

My jig for radiusing end blocks? Belt sander and my eyes. Never timed it, but I'm positive it takes me less than a minute to do it. Before I had a belt sander, I had a sanding belt cut open, and stapled to a long board, and I'd push the block back and forth on it; took maybe 2 minutes to cut the radius. I'm sure that it makes economic sense to buy these blocks from Tracy, but do we actually dred the moment we realize we need to make end end block? Do we break out into a sweat, and start to think things through to be sure we don't mess up? Of course not! This is one of those simple tasks that takes but a few moments, and should be part of the enjoyment we call "wood working".

Jeff, I do support some of the vendors here, proudly so, too. If Tracy comes up with a jig that I really can't make near as nice or as acurately, I'll buy one in a heartbeat. My beef isn't with any one vendor or any one person; it's the whole attitude of buying parts and sticking them together that I see as taking away from what all of you started down this journey for in the first place. Jigs and pre-made pieces are for production; those who only need a few blocks, for example, are only taking away from themselves and the real enjoyment of the work by buying them.Mario38462.0351736111

con·de·scend     P    ;Pronunciation Key (knd-snd)
intr.v. con·de·scend·ed, con·de·scend·ing, con·de·scends...
2:To deal with people in a patronizingly superior manner.

"Really; I'm ashamed to see that it has gotten to this"

"I am truly dissapointed in this.
Y'all are thinking of buying end blocks? A simple, end block? "

"When I was 6 years old, I was assembling plastic models of 57 Chevy's
that required more in-depth workmanship. "

"I'm sorry, but if you can't, or won't, make a simple end block, you don't
deserve to be making instruments. Go plant a garden, from pre-potted
plants, no less, surrounded by your lovely lawn that was installed by a
team of immigrants using sod.... "

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

And yeah Mario it is easy to make a end block and in my videos I make
one exactly the way you do. With a belt sander and my eye. But here is
the thing... If someone wants to buy a jig that helps them to do it more
accurately why the heck should you, or anyone, care?

So what if they want to build a kit, or do everything from scratch, maybe
buy some stuff pre-made, some stuff not, or have a load of jigs to help
them. I say whatever works for you do it. And you, obviously, like to
make the end block the way you do. Nothing wrong with that but don't
come down on someone just because they think differently than you.

Now you want to say; hey guys here is how I make end blocks. It is easy
as heck and describe your method. That is awesome. Your helping teach
and spread your methods. Wonderful. But to say someone is not worthy
of building a guitar just because they want to skip that process, no matter
how easy, is pretty crappy.John Mayes38462.0390740741

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Never looked it up in no dicktionry...

I stand corrected; I was indeed being condescending. My apologies.

You may now resume with the group purchase of little square plywood blocks <g>

[QUOTE=Mario] Jigs and pre-made pieces are for production; those who
only need a few blocks, for example, are only taking away from
themselves and the real enjoyment of the work by buying them.[/QUOTE]

I do agree with you on this point though. But some people see the jigs as
part of the enjoyment. I do think everyone should experience building a
guitar totally from scratch (with the exemption of tuners and such
obviously) as it is more rewarding for sure.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

So what if they want to build a kit, or do everything from scratch, maybe


John? Read.

I've said it what, 3 times already? My problem isn't with the blocks, per say. Or any one jig. It's the overall attitude. I'm afraid I'm seeing a bunch of weekend warriors who began this journey in order to have something fun, relaxing, and satisfying to do, instead turning to vendor after vendor so they can churn out instruments cheaper/faster/easier. Many are forgetting the fun of the journey for the rush of the completed instrument. Instant gratification never truly gratifies....Mario38462.0452662037

Well if your problem was not with the blocks you sure made a fuss of it.

I'm thrilled to see that your so concerned about everyones hobby though.
Shows you care..... you just have a funny way of going about expressing
your concern. And I know.. it's you... I've come to, over time, sense you
are exactly what your signature says a lot of the time. Grumpy. And
that's cool. We all have our own personalities and that is the spice of life I
suppose. It is hard to get across your point in cyber world lots of the
times. I think it would be very easy to interpret your original post as a
bash rather than a genuine concern. I sure as heck did.

I'll just leave you with what I say to my wife when I'm tired of arguing......

Mario your right and I'm wrong. It was my fault 100% and I'm sorry.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Personally I'm not interested in the blocks themselves, because I use a lot of plywood and I have lots of offcuts that I don't have any use for other than to make tailblocks. I would be interested in a jig, though.

For me anything that helps to speed the building process is a good thing, as long as I couldn't actually make it any better myself of course. When I sell a guitar the proportion of the cost relating to materials is quite small, I'm mostly getting paid (at sweatshop rates) for my time. If I can reduce the build time then in effect my hourly rate goes up. Where's the problem in that?

_________________
Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

I'm inclined to agree with Mario on this one. But, my take on it is slightly different. What's the point of purchasing pre-made that which doesn't take any time make your self? One, possible answer is accuracy. However, the curve on a tail block is not hard to get right with a belt sander. (Actually, I use a 12" disk sander). In fact, the curve on my tail blocks is probably not a true radius and I have to do a bit of hand fitting. Even if I spent a whole hour doing it, it wouldn't effect that total build time that much.

I'm all for buying things that make a difference. I buy my finger boards pre-slotted because the $12 bucks or so that it cost to have it done is so small. I only make 2-3 instruments a year and jiging up to cut fret slots is a step that I haven't made yet. One of the reasons is that if I cut my own slots and get it wrong the guitar won't be playable. I also purchase my bridges. Or, I have so far. I now want a bridge that is not EI Rosewood or Ebony so I'm starting to make the jigs necessary to make bridges. I also buy my liners pre-kerfed. In this case I have made my own and the process was very boring so now I buy.

I make my own head and tail blocks as well as all the braces, Why? Because these components are either easy to do or a intergal part of what makes a guitar unique.

Wow! A spirited debate!

My feelings - to each his own - plain and simple -If there is one thing I KNOW to be true in guitar building, its that there is no ONE way to do things -

We all do things our own way, be it with premade parts or from scratch, or some combo of both.

Whats most important is how we feel when were doing it and when were done. Thats really the only thing that counts my opinion - and you what thats worth

_________________
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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Wow...looks like i missed out on something here!!

My suggestion was that if Tracy could supply a sanding block in the proper radius, it would be helpful for making   end blocks...In the same way a radiused sanding block is nice when radiusing a fretboard, etc.

I form these now by sanding them close to shape on a belt sander, and finishing them off in the form itself, to insure a good fit...basically using the mold as the sanding block...but it might be nice to have this as a seperate piece instead of wrestling with the form when sanding.