Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Thicknessing sides
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1887		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  dubell [ Thu May 05, 2005 4:31 am ]
Post subject: 
I am getting ready to start my second guitar. For my first I used scrap and thickness my sides, back, and top with my 15" 3 H.P. Planer. I would add 8" to the final length of side, back, or top so I could cut 4" off from both ends to get rid of the snipe.

For my second, I bought an LMI kit. The sides, back, and top are very close to final dimension. Therefore, I can't use my planner.

How do you thickness your sides, tops, and backs?
From the subject, I am mostly interested in the sides for now as I will be doing that first. I imagine I will hand plane the tops and backs, or put them through my planer and final thickness on a drum sander??

Thanks,

Doug Ubele
Author:  LanceK [ Thu May 05, 2005 4:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Drum Sander - If there thick- say 1/4 or thicker - i start with 30 grit and hog off as much as possible -then I work my up to 80 from there. After that I use my ROS and take the sides to 220 before bending.
Author:  HankMauel [ Thu May 05, 2005 4:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Hand planing wood is an acquired skill. While it is do-able, you might consider this.....

Try searching your area for a cabinet shop that has a wide belt sander, and will rent some time on it. Get all your wood together...top and back joined and maybe even have your rosette inlaid a bit below the rough surface of the top. Then take it all over to the shop and in probably 10 minutes, you will have everything sanded to thickness. Back and sides can go to the .085-.090 inch thickness; the top, depending on it's stiffness, to the .125" range...maybe thinner.
If you have the rosette already inlaid, sand that side until it is all flush and smooth, then turn over and reduce to final thickness from what will be the inside of the top.
Author:  John How [ Thu May 05, 2005 5:04 am ]
Post subject: 
Most excellent advise!
Author:  dubell [ Thu May 05, 2005 5:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Everything looks 3/16". I don't have a drum sander.

Lance - What do you have? I can't afford much, and have been looking at the Performax 629004K 16-32 Plus Drum Sander. How good of a job will this do? My planer gave me perfect results.

Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Thu May 05, 2005 5:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Doug,

Since you got the LMI kit you also received a copy of my guitar building DVD in it. Go to the section on thicknessing sides and you will see how I do this using a tool called a safety planer. It should cost you around 40 bucks for this slick little unit. Put it in a drill press and thickness to about what you need for your final thickness. Then bend your sides and use a cabinet scraper to remove the swirl marks left by the tool. THAT'S IT!
Now you could use a drum sander if you have one. BUT, if you use the safetly planer tool first you will save tons of money on belts cause you will only have to thickness sand the sides once on each side to get to your desired measurment. If you try and thickness only using a thickness sander you will gum up belts and go through them in a hurry.
If you want to rent time on someone's thickness sander spend the 40 bucks for the tool and thickness them yourself before going to the thickness sander. You will save enough money in rented time to pay for the tool.
Also, for my classical guitars I thickness the sides to 1.8mm and back to 2.5mm. YOu can bend the sides like butter even dry on LMI's bending iron if you go to this thickness.
good luck.

Author:  bob J [ Thu May 05, 2005 6:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Robbie,
Does the safety planner work equally well with highly figured woods?
Author:  dubell [ Thu May 05, 2005 6:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Hey Robbie,

I got the LMI kit and your DVD. The quality of the materials is very good, as you said.

I did preview your DVD and did watch how you use the safety planer. For me, it looks a little dangerous. I have experienced my drill press chuck falling out of its housing when applying horizontal forces. Also, I am concerned if the sides flex while planing, you'll get an inconsistent cut.

I'm thinking of using my planer, and then finishing on a drum sander.

Thanks for you help Robbie. I have only watched the first section, but I am sure this will be a great resource that I greatly need.

Thanksdubell38477.6625810185
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Thu May 05, 2005 7:37 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=bob J] Robbie,
Does the safety planner work equally well with highly figured woods?[/QUOTE]

Bob,
One of my students this past semester built a lacewood guitar and the other a bird's eye maple and the safety planer had no problem with either. I have also used it on some pretty narly Brazilian rosewood with success.
Every now and again one of my students will try only using the thickness sander. Others will be bending their sides already while the one is still trying to thickness sand to the correct thickness.
There are obviously many ways to skin a cat but I am a proponent of the safety planer.    
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Thu May 05, 2005 7:42 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=dubell] Hey Robbie,

I got the LMI kit and your DVD. The quality of the materials is very good, as you said.

I did preview your DVD and did watch how you use the safety planer. For me, it looks a little dangerous. I have experienced my drill press chuck falling out of its housing when applying horizontal forces. Also, I am concerned if the sides flex while planing, you'll get an inconsistent cut.

I'm thinking of using my planer, and then finishing on a drum sander.

Thanks for you help Robbie. I have only watched the first section, but I am sure this will be a great resource that I greatly need.


Doug,

You are correct when you say that you can get an inconsisitent cut if the sides flex while planing. If you do it the way I show in the dvd this is nearly impossible to happen.
Your idea of using your planer and then drum sanding is a good way as well. I have used the new Dewalt planer on the marker with success. You may want to try putting the sides on a piece of 3/4 inch MDF with double side tape. This works well. Then you can thickness sand to your final measurement.

Good luck!
Thanks[/QUOTE]
Author:  sfbrown [ Thu May 05, 2005 8:22 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] [QUOTE=bob J] Robbie,
Does the safety planner work equally well with highly figured woods?[/QUOTE]

Bob,
One of my students this past semester built a lacewood guitar and the other a bird's eye maple and the safety planer had no problem with either. I have also used it on some pretty narly Brazilian rosewood with success.
Every now and again one of my students will try only using the thickness sander. Others will be bending their sides already while the one is still trying to thickness sand to the correct thickness.
There are obviously many ways to skin a cat but I am a proponent of the safety planer.    [/QUOTE]

Robbie,

While I see the benefit of using the safety planer, you mention on more than one occasion in your DVD (wonderful, btw!)that this should be performed with 2 people in attendance. While I realize that this is not necessarily a safety issue, I'm in the position of not having access to an additional pair of hands without driving 2 hours to Tim McM's house.

How easy/hard/dangerous/etc. is it to use the safety planer in the manner you prescribe but single-handedly?

Thanks, Steve Brown

PS On another subject, I made one of the flush cutting bits you describe (drill rod angle ground). After you grind the bit, do you lap it to smooth the surface? I ask because I cut out my first headstock and all went well (far better than I could have imagined! ) except for the trailing point where the bit is entering (or exitting) on the short side. I experienced some chipping of the veneer sandwich. Any thoughts? If I have succeeded in totalling confusing you, I can post a picture of the issue. I am running it at 3100 rpm, if that has bearing on the question.

Regards, Steve Brown
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Thu May 05, 2005 9:14 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=sfbrown] [QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] [QUOTE=bob J] Robbie,
Does the safety planner work equally well with highly figured woods?[/QUOTE]

Bob,
One of my students this past semester built a lacewood guitar and the other a bird's eye maple and the safety planer had no problem with either. I have also used it on some pretty narly Brazilian rosewood with success.
Every now and again one of my students will try only using the thickness sander. Others will be bending their sides already while the one is still trying to thickness sand to the correct thickness.
There are obviously many ways to skin a cat but I am a proponent of the safety planer.    [/QUOTE]

Robbie,

While I see the benefit of using the safety planer, you mention on more than one occasion in your DVD (wonderful, btw!)that this should be performed with 2 people in attendance. While I realize that this is not necessarily a safety issue, I'm in the position of not having access to an additional pair of hands without driving 2 hours to Tim McM's house.

How easy/hard/dangerous/etc. is it to use the safety planer in the manner you prescribe but single-handedly?

Thanks, Steve Brown

PS On another subject, I made one of the flush cutting bits you describe (drill rod angle ground). After you grind the bit, do you lap it to smooth the surface? I ask because I cut out my first headstock and all went well (far better than I could have imagined! ) except for the trailing point where the bit is entering (or exitting) on the short side. I experienced some chipping of the veneer sandwich. Any thoughts? If I have succeeded in totalling confusing you, I can post a picture of the issue. I am running it at 3100 rpm, if that has bearing on the question.

Regards, Steve Brown[/QUOTE]


Steve,

Thanks for the compliments on the DVD.
Yes, you can do the safety planer by yourself and that is what I usually do. There is more margin for error when doing it alone but it can be done and quite well.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Thu May 05, 2005 9:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Steve,

me again,

About the drill bit for cutting out the headstock...
I grind the angle on a wheel and leave it at that. I don't lap it or anything else.
To minimize tear out you can come in an inch or so on the exiting side of the headstock. Then back out and come in from the opposite side. This should take care of it.

Did you get the steel string or the classical version of the DVD?
Author:  sfbrown [ Thu May 05, 2005 12:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] Steve,

me again,

About the drill bit for cutting out the headstock...
I grind the angle on a wheel and leave it at that. I don't lap it or anything else.
To minimize tear out you can come in an inch or so on the exiting side of the headstock. Then back out and come in from the opposite side. This should take care of it.

Did you get the steel string or the classical version of the DVD?[/QUOTE]

Robbie,

I have the classical DVD. Is there another kind of guitar?? anyway, I did as you suggest, the problem is one inherent to routing, period. It is where the cutting edge of the bit it is pulling against grain that has no support. I have run into it while making doors etc. I thought that if the bit was sharper, it might help. What RPM do you run yours at?

Also, thanks for the confirmation about doing the safety planer alone. I will order one when I do my next order. I didn't realize that the safety planer is that much faster. I can live with that!

Regards, Steve Brown
Author:  tl507362 [ Thu May 05, 2005 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=sfbrown]
I will order one when I do my next order. I didn't realize that the safety planer is that much faster. I can live with that!
Regards, Steve Brown[/QUOTE]

Steve, you don't have to order this online if you have a rocklers or Woodcraft store nearby. I got mine from Woodcraft and paid the same price, but didn't have to wait for it since woodcraft is about a mile from my house. You might want to check at Ace, Lowes, or Home Depot. I love mine, I use it to thickness my peghead from the back side since I do not have a jointer. You could also thickness the neck to almost the finished thickness in the middle, then start the rounding over process. I haven't tried this, but I think I saw someone do this somewhere.
Tracy
Author:  sfbrown [ Thu May 05, 2005 12:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=tl507362] [QUOTE=sfbrown]
I will order one when I do my next order. I didn't realize that the safety planer is that much faster. I can live with that!
Regards, Steve Brown[/QUOTE]

Steve, you don't have to order this online if you have a rocklers or Woodcraft store nearby. I got mine from Woodcraft and paid the same price, but didn't have to wait for it since woodcraft is about a mile from my house. You might want to check at Ace, Lowes, or Home Depot. I love mine, I use it to thickness my peghead from the back side since I do not have a jointer. You could also thickness the neck to almost the finished thickness in the middle, then start the rounding over process. I haven't tried this, but I think I saw someone do this somewhere.
Tracy[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tip. Woodcraft is about an hour away, doable. Rocklers is over 2 hours away, not so doable. With the price of gas though, it gives one pause...

Thanks, Steve Brown
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu May 05, 2005 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 

Rockler where? The one in Columbus appears to be going out of business. They are merging with Wood Werks.

Author:  rlabbe [ Fri May 06, 2005 3:22 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=tl507362]thickness in the middle, then start the rounding over process. I haven't tried this, but I think I saw someone do this somewhere.
Tracy[/QUOTE] I do that sometimes. I like my necks to be a different thickness at the first fret vs the 9th, so I just superglue a shim at the first fret to lift the neck at that point, run it through the safety planer, then knock off the shim, which was only tacked on with a drop of glue.

Author:  sfbrown [ Fri May 06, 2005 7:54 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Brock Poling]
Rockler where? The one in Columbus appears to be going out of business. They are merging with Wood Werks.

[/QUOTE]

Brock, I was referring to the one north of Detroit. I forgot about the one in Columbus. I'm squarely between the two.

Steve Brown
Author:  Brock Poling [ Fri May 06, 2005 12:50 pm ]
Post subject: 

Woodcraft and Wood Werks are alive and well here though... In fact Wood Werks has a lot of big tools setting on the floor to compare.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/