Are you CRAZY?
Lance you have way too much free time or not enough grief in your life! BLUE!?
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| Dying maple bindings (Help) http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1949 |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Thu May 12, 2005 12:45 am ] |
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I would like to use flamed maple bindings, but what them to be a different color, maybe even blue, is there a way to fully penetrate them with a dye before bending and gluing on? Or is this done after words? |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu May 12, 2005 12:48 am ] |
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Are you CRAZY? Lance you have way too much free time or not enough grief in your life! BLUE!?
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| Author: | LanceK [ Thu May 12, 2005 12:56 am ] |
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Dave -- 
I am building a guitar for next years River Folk Festival, its going to have an Americana Theme - the River Folk Motif inlaid up the fretboard, possible wood choices are all Michigan woods, Sycamore back and sides, Dug fir Top, BLUE Maple bindings. Sounds gaudy I know, but I think it could be cool if done right. |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu May 12, 2005 12:56 am ] |
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Well I guess you were serious. I would dye the Maple (blue...sigh...sigh)AFTER bending it , and then seal it with shellac before putting it near the guitar. I would think the heat of bending it could distort/intensify the stain in some spots. I suppose others will have other ways...Change your mind Lance...I just can't see it Lance... 
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| Author: | bob J [ Thu May 12, 2005 12:57 am ] |
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Why not puce |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:00 am ] |
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Puce? |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:00 am ] |
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Sounds more like a guitar for Spiderman or Superman. Just kidding...if you're building it I know it's going to look beautiful regardless of the colors. Doesn't Tom Rebbecke or is it Charles Fox, that uses a lot of Red dyed binding? or is it purfling? 
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:15 am ] |
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What is that Puce? |
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| Author: | John How [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:18 am ] |
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Are you putting any purfling next to the maple. I have done this by adding a black line next to the binding and then masking to the black line just prior to finishing and then staining the binding. You can also seal (with shellac or whatever) everything you don't want stained and then stain the binding. I would probably do this just before finishing so you don't have too sand the stained binding unless you can figure a way to get considerable penetration of the color. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:23 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] What is that Puce? [/QUOTE] It is a color. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:23 am ] |
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to my limited knowledge without cooking under heat and pressure a dye will only penetrate the surface layers of the wood. not a problem with purflings because they are thin enough that the dye applied to both sides reaches the centre. but bindings are thick enough that this doesn't occur so any sanding/scraping after it is glued on will run risk of removing the dyed surface layers. if anyone knows of a way to do it i would like to hear it. i have tried to do it and failed miserably. blue???? |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:26 am ] |
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Don't let these boys get you down... Nothing wrong with blue bindings. Why not? You could even go flamed maple b/s in a red burst, clean spruce top (no color), DARK blue maple bindings, and white purflings. Red/White/Blue. I think that could look cool. A lot of work, but cool. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:52 am ] |
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Well lots of good suggestions here. I tend to agree with John How's method. I don't know of a way to dye bindings in the shop that would penetrate deep enough to avoid sanding thru the color. So staining after their sanded which entails a PIA masking job but it could be done and would look great. The black dividing perfling would also help but I suppose you don't want any black. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu May 12, 2005 1:56 am ] |
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I don't know if you remember a post I did a couple months ago but one project I have for the future is quilted maple b/s stained blue with natural curly maple bindings. My task will be bit easer though because I will be staining the b/s prior to binding. In your case I think Dave is on track I would bend stain and seal. I expect that you sill still have touch up to be done after scrapping. As you know the stain will infiltrate vastly differnt amounts in the curl depending on the grain orientation of the curl. I haven't a clue as to how to pressure dye. Let us know how it goes. I may want to try something like this when I grow up 
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu May 12, 2005 2:10 am ] |
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michael, if you had done that one a few years ago you might have made the blue guitar book. |
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| Author: | Scott Thompson [ Thu May 12, 2005 2:16 am ] |
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Without pressure it might be tough. We tried playing around with dying prior to turning on a lathe once upon a time. Not much luck with deep penetration at atmospheric pressure. I think keeping the solution warm and using alcohol as a surfactant gave somewhat better results. For your bindings you won't have to have it absorb as deep, but might run into having it absorb well into to earlywood and not so well into the latewood. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu May 12, 2005 2:17 am ] |
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] michael, if you had done that one a few years ago you might have made the blue guitar book.[/QUOTE]
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| Author: | Wade Sylvester [ Thu May 12, 2005 2:51 am ] |
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Go for it Lance, It would seem a really careful masking job would be the way to go. How about seal coating the edge before you cut for the bindings, glue them in, and stain with masking for extra protection. You could also pre stain and touch up as Michael said. I would imagine the pre stain would penetrate the softer wood but if you sanded it, the true color would reveal itself at the denser figure arias. This could look cool too. Good ideas. Let us know what you end up with! |
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| Author: | Tom D [ Thu May 12, 2005 3:08 am ] |
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What about Blue Plastic??? 
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu May 12, 2005 4:36 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Tom D] What about Blue Plastic??? [/QUOTE]
Yeouch! Tom, go sit in the corner for a time out! Seriously, guys, have you ever seen a PRS with a blue flame maple top? Gorgeous! Lance, you probably know this, but be sure to use a transparent, water-soluble dye...and be sure your maple is free of yellow, so you don't get a green tint when you add blue. Carlton |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu May 12, 2005 8:58 am ] |
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I agree Carlton but what color is the binding on the PRS's?
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Thu May 12, 2005 9:42 am ] |
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Lance, along with Carlton's advice, you might want to bleach the binding prior to staining. Just to get all the yellow out of it. Dave, it was CFox with the colored purflings. Different colors went on different models. He was a bit put off when I told him it made his guitars look "cheap". |
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| Author: | bob J [ Thu May 12, 2005 9:53 am ] |
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Puce is a shade of red. I know you want to go american woods but bloodwood for fingerboard would be the ticket. Bloodwood is very dense and tough and looks beautiful sanded. |
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| Author: | Jason [ Thu May 12, 2005 10:54 am ] |
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I know the answer! Well kinda anyways. The turners I've talked to who like to dye their wood boil it or put it in a pressure cooker.. I don't know where you get a pressure cooker that fits something 32inches long.. Binding is soo thin that it wouldnt take much.. Why not try a piece of pipe, capped off.. boil the dye in a kettle then once its good and hot pour er in, cap it and let it soak for a while. If you don't try you'll never know, and if you don't post your methods on the internet the rest of us can't steal your idea.. uhh I mean learn from your experiences?
I'd test this on plain maple while your perfecting your staining methods.. those curly pieces are kinda pricey |
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| Author: | HankMauel [ Thu May 12, 2005 11:14 am ] |
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From WAY BACK in the days of radio...BTV (before television)...I remember from some unnamed comedy show that the color puce was defined as a 50-50 mixture of Welch's Grape Juice and Donald Duck orange Juice. Now..why does THAT stick in my mind? I dunno...maybe just a moment of clarity as I drift in and out of the fog of age.
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