Official Luthiers Forum!

I give up! I cracked my first set of bubinga sides when I bent them at what everyone considered WAY too thick, 3mm. Ok fair enough I ordered another set of sides ($30) and thinned them to between .080 and .075 They were really flexy so I thought great problem solved. I bend them on my fox typ bender with a heat blanket. Wrapped in tin foil and spritzed with water.

Now keep in mind I cracked the first set so I'm a bit paranoid. So, I upped the heat and bent sloooowly! I be damned if I didn't crack another side. Actually a series of small cracks all across the upper bout bend.

So now I have one more side to try and bend So I put the micrometer to it just to be sure. Yep .075 Now bend even slower. Is this possible? Again a crack. Just one but still a crack!

What gives? I don't have this kind of trouble bending ebony or flamed maple bindings.

Anyway I'm calling the guy this is for (friends kid) and telling him he's getting rosewood...

[QUOTE=RCoates]

Anyway I'm calling the guy this is for (friends kid) and telling him he's getting rosewood...

[/QUOTE]

That is a great line.

Tell him he can have rosewood with bubinga bindings

If it is any consolation, I am having fits with it too. The waterfall bubinga wants to facet really bad. Heat relaxes it in spots, but other spots right next to it still stay stiff and the bends get all kinds of nasty flats on them.

I took the heat up really high on the second set too. They are bent better, but the problem was still there.

I think this might be just really tough wood to bend.Brock Poling38479.4797685185

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Has anyone had better luck with hand bending?

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I have tried both hand bending and in the fox bender.

Essentially, I have the same problem. It relaxes at different speeds in the various "pockets" of grain and some areas end up much more pliable than others. This makes it a real bear, because flat spots occur all over the place. Sometimes one area of the curve will be good on the top side (toward the player), and have a flat on the side that attaches to the top.

I am sure with enough practice I could get this down (by hand) but perhaps the more prudent thing to do would be to leave it a little thick and then go after these with the belt sander....

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

What would be cool is if there were a relaxer, conditioner, tenderizer type material that would facilitate the process. Obviously, it would need to be tested to assure no interference with bonding or finishing.

I seem to remember Mario mentioning the use of glycerin in water to help to relax the fibers before bending. Unfortunately I don't remember the details.

I wonder if the Zootman has a chemist on his staff to experiment with materials & methods to use on some of his Waterfall Bubinga scrap! Time to get those Grandkids busy, Bob!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I have had the same problems (with the waterfall stuff). I bent four sets of sides in which only two sets survived. All of the cracks I had were in the upper bout radius and waist. I didn't wrap mine but went higher on the heat and real slow. I tried to true up the flats spots on a hot pipe but was unsuccessful. I had the best luck by putting the sides back in the bender and cycling them numerous times but still had potato chipping. I thinned mine down to .70". After the box was together I knocked off the high spots on a belt sander. This is the toughest wood I have ever used, bar none!

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Well I'm both happy and saddened to here of other's troubles with this wood. Happy to know I'm not just some freak that can't fique it out and that it is indeed a very difficult wood to bend. I'm sad to learn the same things. You see I had my eye out for an exceptional set of waterfall stuff or maybe a nice set of pommele Sapele. Now I'm afraid of the bubinga for sure and anything figuered in general.RCoates38479.9339467593

My only experiance with Bubinga was fabulous. The wood didn't have all those fancy "bee's wings" or "waterfalls". It was straight grained with only the slightest rippling. In other words, boring. However, boring is not necessarily a bad thing. It is still a beautiful wood and looks more like a reddish EI rosewood.

This stuff bent like butter and held it's shape. I think a lot of builders are trying to swing for the fence when they try bubinga. If you think of it as a good body wood and not as a major source of "zoot", You'll end up with some beautiful instruments at a very reasonable price. 2/3 the price of EI rosewood.

I think you are probably right. I am sure the problems I am having are mostly a factor of the grain... as I mentioned before, it seems to relax in spots.... I am sure this is related to the grain pattern.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Is this a good candidate for the fabric softener treatment? I've seen some discussion of that somewhere.

Fabric Softener! Please elaborate.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

I seem to remember a thread on MIMF regarding fabric softener. Brock is correct on his observations. I encouter the same hard soft areas when re-sawing. Their are people who have been very succesful in bending this wood. I'm going to try and get their secrets. It's too nice to give up on.

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I agree it is worth the persistance to figure it out.... I am not giving up on it... but this is certainly no cake walk.

Maybe the glyceryn thing is worth a try...

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Fabric softener is a trick I have seen used in strip canoe building. I don't know the details but I do know that it helps the wood bend easier   

I do remember seeing something about using Downy fabric softener. I would think it must be a soak rather than a spritz to do any good. I would try a search over at the MIMF.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

I'll second the comments on straight grained Bubinga - it bent about the same as Honduran Rosewood. Meaning a bit more resistant than Indian Rosewood, but going slow gave a perfect bend.

I am one of those who was fortunate in bending Bubinga. And the set I bent was really curly. Curly for Bubinga, that is. I had heard all the horror stories and was full of dread at the prospect of cracking the sides. However, with the bending iron set on "warp 9", the stuff bent like plastic. I did end up with some facets like Brock said, but they sanded off easily and the sides looked great.
But now you guys have me worried about my waterfall set from the zootman. But like all else, the difficulty presented probably depends on the individual piece. What would be most interesting to me would be to hear back from JJ, who has the sister set to mine. How about it, JJ? Why not go out and give it a try and report back?

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Check out veneersupplies.com for a product called "Super Soft II" (under their "Tools and Supplies" section). Looks very interesting for our purposes, though with some possible downsides. Not too expensive, though, for test purposes.

Carlton

Carlton I just ordered some and will give it a try. What downsides do you see?

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

[QUOTE=Bobc] Carlton I just ordered some and will give it a try. What downsides do you see?[/QUOTE]

Here one copied from their website.

How long will softening effect last?
For some reason, this varies from veneer to veneer. Some users are finding the flexibility so remain for as long as 2 weeks. Generally speaking, you can expect the effects to last between 4 and 7 days.
Scott Thompson38481.7571875

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Scott Thompson
Port Townsend,WA

"In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune
But this is reality so give me some room"
-Billy Bragg

Scott theirr talking about veneer. I really doubt it will the same effect on a set of sides.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Steve...you beat me to the punch! I was just going to suggest that you do the same.

Seriously, I bought this highly figured stuff as an incentive to reward myself after I got at least 10 instruments under my belt. I'm at 4 now and slowly chugging along. Also, before I attempt the WF Bubinga, Eucalyptus and Sapele, I'm going to get a heating blanket.

In the meantime, Steve, let's see who blinks first!!!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=Bobc] Scott theirr talking about veneer. I really doubt it will the same effect on a set of sides.[/QUOTE]

If the thickness of sides will work with just spritzing the surface as they advise then you’re probably right. If the stuff has to permeate deeper through soaking then it might take a bit longer for it to dissipate. Thanks for testing this out for us. I'll wait for your results. Scott Thompson38482.0559143519

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Scott Thompson
Port Townsend,WA

"In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune
But this is reality so give me some room"
-Billy Bragg

[QUOTE=JJ Donohue]
In the meantime, Steve, let's see who blinks first!!! [/QUOTE]

Or screams first?   

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com