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| 12-string setup question http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2048 |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed May 25, 2005 12:37 pm ] |
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When a guy sets up a 12-string at the saddle, do the deuces (octave strings) need to be compensated separately or just left at the same compensation as their "main string" counterparts? I'm trying to convince myself that each main and octave string is so close together that they can break across the saddle at the same length... Larry |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed May 25, 2005 1:25 pm ] |
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Larry, I've only built one 12 string, so take this for what it's worth: the strings are indeed so close that you would be hard pressed to compensate the saddle in that miniscule space. However, I noticed on mine lately that the octave string on the 6th course was quite a bit different in pitch when playing up at the tenth fret... and higher. Made me wish I had tried to compensate the saddle (for the octaves) at least some. All that said, 12's typically aren't played in that manner. They have a different repertoire than a 6 string. Perhaps this is part of the reason. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed May 25, 2005 1:29 pm ] |
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most do just that. but for the finicky, i have done individually compensated octaves at a suitable $. it often serves to reduce demand. whilst it is thoretically more correct, in all the jangle it's hard to say how much difference it makes. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:11 am ] |
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I have built one 12 string and one 9 string. I did seperate compensation on the low Ee, Aa, Dd and Gg on the 12 string and only the Gg on the 9 string. I used micro files and it was not easy. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:44 am ] |
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i think in the forty odd years i've worked on instruments i've done it maybe four or five times at most, and i don't think i ever have got it right first try. at least once i know i ruined two blanks before i was satisfied. not easy is an extremely polite understatement! a more appropriate, accurate and cathartic description is not permitted under the prevailing rules for civility to which we subscribe! |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 1:49 am ] |
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] i think in the forty odd years i've worked on instruments i've done it maybe four or five times at most, and i don't think i ever have got it right first try. at least once i know i ruined two blanks before i was satisfied. not easy is an extremely polite understatement! a more appropriate, accurate and cathartic description is not permitted under the prevailing rules for civility to which we subscribe![/QUOTE] We understand Michael....It will allbe OK 
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 3:02 am ] |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:10 am ] |
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Ok, so my 12 string experience is rather limited. I play one (not well mind you) and I've built one. Working on my second. I noticed at the music store that carries my guitars that the sympathy strings were towards the bass side of the string (in other words, eE, aA, dD, gG, bb, ee). I've always strung mine up the opposite (Ee, Aa, Dd, Gg, bb, ee) and have seen it like that on electrics. Why the difference? |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:16 am ] |
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My first 12 was a Yamaha 72 FG-260 it was strung Ee,Aa ect from the factory. But like you I see them in the music stores both ways. I have tried both ways and I like Ee Aa the best. I don't know the answer but the Ee makes more sence to me. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 5:34 am ] |
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i've never built a twelve but of those that have come through for work the octaves toward the bass layout has outnumbered the reverse arrangement at least 10-1, if not more. |
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| Author: | Don A [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:21 am ] |
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I've got a Takamine 12. It is also set up with the treble towards the base. It seems to me that a 12 string would be the perfect reason to use split saddles for setting intonation. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:04 am ] |
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sorry guys! just read don's post and wondered "what is he talking about 'trebles toward the base'; that makes no sense at all. then i read my last post; don quoted my non-sensical wording. i must be more senile than i thought. i will edit now. mea culpa, mea magna culpa! i think we both meant octaves toward the bass! didn't we don? |
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| Author: | Don A [ Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:38 pm ] |
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Yep, high octive to the bass. High octive E on the outside and low E octive on the inside, same for A through G. B and E tuned both the same. |
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