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| Anyone used Kermodie Spruce? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2131 |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:02 pm ] |
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There's a guy on Australian Ebay selling kermodie spruce, it is a lot cheaper than the sitka I used for my first guitar, like about a third the price. So just for the price alone I'm thinking of trying it, but I don't know how it differs from any other spruce. Anyone out there used it? Is it any good? Thanks, Paul |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:23 am ] |
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Greetings from the other side of the planet.... I bought some from this guy, who also runs luthierforum.com. That website seems more like one big advertisement for his wood than anything, but there can be some interesting reading, and William Cumpiano has a small presence there. I bought a small billet of "bearclaw" kermodie spruce off eBay to try out. When I finally got it and took a plane to it's surface I found a nice amount of silking but very faint bearclaw. It looks like Sitka to me. You can legally change it's name and own the name, but Sitka is Sitka. That's alright by me, I happen to like Sitka a lot. You can get some reasonably good deals from this guy, but, IMO you can do just as well by buying Sitka from Ed Dicks, who does all the slicing for you. But if you feel you can get a decent deal, it's worth trying. I know William Cumpiano gets his Sitka from this guy, and one piece I saw on one of his guitars was very nice. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:24 am ] |
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I can't imagine it isn't worth a try. I recently saw Larch spruce being used and I thought it sounded great. That was the first I had heard of that wood. If it is light and stiff I can't imagine that it isn't worth a try. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:27 am ] |
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Years ago they were dismantling a plank fence where I worked. All 2" thick by 8-10"w. by 8' long Larch Planks. That was back in my wood stove days. Burnt every bit of the stuff. I believe Larch is a fir. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:51 am ] |
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I recently saw Larch spruce Make up your mind; we got spruce, and we got larch <g> They're not the same. Larch is also known as Tamarak, and is the only conifer to lose its needles every fall. Very high in sap, with a high BTU rating, many homes have burned down from burning green larch, it burns so hot. Quite a bit heavier than spruce, but also stiffer. Wonderful color and bold grain... Martin made a run of HD-28's about 20 years ago of Larch. Word is they were good, but nothing special. I have some split sets that I'll try as mandolin tops some day, but they need a few more year's drying time..... |
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| Author: | JAmes [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:02 am ] |
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Some of it is sitka-ish, but the white spruce hybrid stuff doesn't appear like sitka. It is nice, stiff wood, but the quality of his sawing when you buy actual tops rather than billets can sometimes be lacking. I'd verify the quality of the sets if he's selling them really cheap. 
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:34 am ] |
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Mario your right on about burning hot. I would only throw a few pieces in along with the hardwood. What a shame I had a lot of this fifty year old wood. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:58 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Mario] I recently saw Larch spruce Make up your mind; we got spruce, and we got larch <g> They're not the same. Larch is also known as Tamarak, and is the only conifer to lose its needles every fall. Very high in sap, with a high BTU rating, many homes have burned down from burning green larch, it burns so hot. Quite a bit heavier than spruce, but also stiffer. Wonderful color and bold grain... Martin made a run of HD-28's about 20 years ago of Larch. Word is they were good, but nothing special. I have some split sets that I'll try as mandolin tops some day, but they need a few more year's drying time..... [/QUOTE] Ok, now I feel more educated. The guy that used it told me it was "Larch Spruce" ... so I was just repeating what he told me. Again, this was the first time I heard of it. 
But the guitar sounded fine... great even.... My point was simply there is no reason not to try things. But thanks for the info. 
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:03 am ] |
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I have a dred size top that is larch/tamarak. I bought some englemann from someone and he threw in a set of the larch. It seems to have a nice tap to it. It is a little heaver than sitka too. Haven't decided what type of guitar to build with it yet. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:26 am ] |
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I have not tried the "kermodie" spruce. It may be awesome and I'm sure it can work nicely, but is it just me or does not the guy selling it throw the biggest hype/sales with this stuff? That turns me off, but if it is good wood it is good wood and that is the bottom line. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:42 am ] |
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I haven't seen that much hype since some character was selling ukelele's that looked like a smiley face. Hard to imagine that. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:35 am ] |
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Yeah, the sales pitch assures that I'll never buy a sliver from him. Wood is wood; he didn't suddenly discover a new forest. He's just a snake oil salesman... I'd much rather buy from normal spruce suppliers. Ed Dicks won't jerk you around with this silliness, and his wood is near impossible to beat. Having a great "eye" for wood is more important than where it came from and how it was dragged out of the forest(part of the other dude's sales pitch), and Ed has a keen eye for what makes a great top. Same as Bob has the eye for hardwoods, and Craig does wonders with pearl. A good product sells itself and doesn't need no snake oil style garnishment. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:11 am ] |
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I'm with ya Mario. I e-mailed the dude (I think his name is mario too if I remember right) asking about buying a top notch billet and he told me that he would not sell me that cause he cuts up those tops himself (totally understandable) and sells them for over $100 (not so understandable). He went on to suggest that the only real factor of what makes a guitar top sound good is silking. I disagreed with him and said it was a consideration, but by no means the main/only factor. I showed him a pic of sitka I got from Ed dicks and he was shocked it was only $40 (AAA not even master..but dang good) and said that he was either stupid or he did not know what he had. Sales pitch is over the top. I don't give a rip what zip code it came from. I just want stiff, light, good sounding and looking wood. If it came from the tree that george washington peed on as a kid that is fine, but I just want good tonewood. Ok rant over..... |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:19 am ] |
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I e-mailed the dude (I think his name is mario too if I I try to ignore that fact <bg> |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:43 am ] |
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I don't care for hype either. I can't trust hype, and it makes me suspicious. If a product is good, it does not need to be hyped. It will pretty much sell itself once word gets out. This person may be very nice and have a fine product, so let the product speak for itself. When I have dealt with BobC, or Ed at AC woods, or Steve at Colonial, I told them up front, I need help, I don't know much about tonewoods. I felt comfortable doing this, because I could trust them not to take advantage of my lack of knowldge. Jeff |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:49 am ] |
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. |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:58 am ] |
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Well I couldn't imagine trying to sell wood using all that hype. I'm sure my sales would certainly fall. "Just the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth" thats all the hype that is needed. Thanks again |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:22 am ] |
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Thanks guys, I didn't trust the hype either, which is why I asked the question here instead of there. The guy selling this stuff is the Australian agent, he buys billets and resaws them here (though that doesn't seem like a good way to keep the cost of shipping down), I bought an AA european spruce top off him in the past that was very good. At $US32 for an AA+ bearclaw kermodie top, I think I'll give it a go. So it's really just good 'ol sitka with a brand name, a marketing dept, and a few llamas, yeah? |
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| Author: | Jason [ Thu Jun 09, 2005 5:42 pm ] |
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The "Kermodie" part of the spruce isn't a species, it's an enviromental thing. His spruce is interior "white spruce".. as far as I know it's sitka and/or a sitka hybrid. He was involved in establishing some sort of enviromentally friendly certification ( "Kermodie Bear Cert" ) but it's not like it's a government endorsement or anything really official like the enviro friendly wood LMI is promoting now. He does have some great wood, we've worked with him on and off since he got into the biz. You'll get what you pay for though. Those 3 dollar sets on ebay are 3 dollars for a reason. I think his sales/marketing approach is somewhat bizzare and would probably consider it insulting if I took it all seriously.. I try to think of tonewood customers as being somewhat educated on what they are looking for and if they aren't I'd like to help them along in the right direction not fill their heads with all kinds of wild bs. He actually does use horses and llamas to pack his wood out out of the bush.. as far as the harvesting with certain phases of the moon, cloning parent trees and living in a cave during the harvest season.. whatever floats your boat.. noones ever going to convince me that actually matters though. |
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| Author: | gtrmkr [ Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:42 am ] |
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Hello all, I have a customer that gave me the link to your discusion. His guitar that I am building is made with Mario's wood "Kermodie" All in All I have gotten a truck load of the wood. The wood does sell itself and is worth the money. He offers low grade tops for people that are just starting out and for the starving artist. A bunch of the low grade sets he has are selling on other sites for an arm and a leg. Brian Burns did some testing of his wood and you will be shocked at the results. It is true the wood is hybrid. The way things evolve makes them better and that is what is going on with the wood he is selling. Everyone has their way of doing things. "Like selling wood" If we all did it the same and acted like each other, we wouldn't evolve. Go to the site and look over the results of Brian's tests. Mario is easily misunderstood. He has perfected cutting and hand splitting billets. Don't put his wood down because he is kinda hard to understand at times. Thanks for your time. Greg I |
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| Author: | PaulB [ Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:28 am ] |
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Thanks Greg, do you have a link to Brian's tests? |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:55 am ] |
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So far, I've built one guitar, a classical, with a Kermodie spruce top. I'm about 80% finished with another classical that also has a Kermodie top. That Kermodie classical sounds great. I think it compares very favorably with Euro spruce regarding its tonal properties. It is my understanding that this type of spruce is a hybrid of Engelmann, sitka, and white spruce, and that the hybridization occurs only at certain higher elevations. It's proper scientific name, as I understand, is Lutzii spruce. This particular area that Mario harvests from is a rather small area up in the coastal mountains of British Columbia, which is where the Lutzii variety is found. As for appearance, since it is a hybrid, it can vary. I've seen some of this Lutzii stuff that looks more like Euro than Engelmann, and some other that looks more like Sitka. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | gtrmkr [ Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:59 am ] |
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http://luthierforum.com/index.php?showtopic=1343 Check out the harvesting thread if you want. It's a good read and does show some interesting things. If the results are confusing, Brian explains the reason why and I think he will do a follow up post that will clarify things. Hope this helps. Greg I |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:26 am ] |
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The person that was selling the "Kermodie" spruce who is in Australia is a Luthier that I buy King William Pine, Australian Blackwood and other aussie tonewoods from. His name is Barry Kerr. The Kermodie Spruce (forgeting all the hype) is hybridized Sitka/Englemann (Black Kermodie) or Sitka/White Spruce (White Kermodie). These hybrids are common but not often segrated by loggers. The same wood that is hyped is available from other sources as Lutz Spruce as the species name for the hybrid is Picea Lutzi. It is very nice spruce and does sound very good but at the end of the day it is down to the individual billet or top as far as its quality. So Mario (the logger) who is marketing the wood as Kermodie has been setting up dealers in which if you buy a certain volume per month you then have the right to sell your wood as "Kermodie"...Barry (my aussie luthier friend) was just looking for good sources of spruce for tops and as such is buying billets from Mario and then resawing for his guitars and selling the excess tops on eBay, partially as a way to get people to notice the other great aussie woods he sells on eBay. Personally I have bought some really nice wood from Mario and some that is just okay...but that was all before he started raising his prices dramatically. If I can buy tops from another "kermodie dealer" such as Barry, I will buy from them and it will be both cheaper and easier than buying kermodie some other way. |
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| Author: | JAmes [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:46 am ] |
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I did the 'dealer' thing, but have decided not to continue. Mostly because it's too much of a bother to get the rough wood from Mario, plane it smooth to tell if the tops really are good, get replacements for the ones that aren't, then sell and ship the wood. It's not my cup of tea. But I do have 6-8 extra tops left of the white spruce hybrid variety. If anyone wants to give it a try, I'd be interested in trades for nice back/side wood sets. I'm in Arizona. |
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