michael you are a wise Old sage
I could not agree more
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| Novax fan freting---a few questions http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2180 |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:09 pm ] |
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I have a customer who may want novax fan fretting on his acoustic. I have never done this before and would like some advice. First, what sort of upcharge would you guys recommend? This will be more trouble and effort for sure Second, I am assuming that when determining the angle of the frets that you just get the two outside string lengths (bass and treble E )and determine their fret positions and then join them with a fret line for the interior string length fret locations. That makes sense to me but I would like soom consensual validation here Third, I assume that there is a fee due to Novax for use of his idea, anyone know how much this is and how to go about getting permission, etc Fourth, Does anyone have any suggestions or advice in general on this project? Pitfalls to avoid etc. Thanks in Advance John K |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:34 pm ] |
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John, Mike Doolin has a nifty little jig he made for cutting the slots, you may want to shoot him an email. Or check it out HERE |
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| Author: | johno [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:38 pm ] |
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Yes you need to pay a fee Novax Licensing I know there are at least couple of builders that say this is a crap as fan frets were around long before there was a Ralph Novax, he just applied for the patent. I hope with the fee, you get your questions answered. |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:25 pm ] |
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My understanding is, when you pay the license fee Novak will send you the info you need to layout the fretboard, bridge location, etc. Not sure what the fee is, but you can find all the info on his website. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:38 pm ] |
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As I recall it is $75. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:00 am ] |
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you may want to edit to "fan fretting" so as not to confuse those new to the subject. my $0.02 for what it's worth: before i build for a client an instrument of a new type, size, or style, or incorporating significant changes to functional or structural design features i build a prototype(s)to make sure i've got it right. this to me is a significant structural design change. unless you want to go to the trouble of building a prototype, or two or three or..., i would not accept the commission. it's your name going on it, and it will be there for a long time. while there is no doubt that you should be able to make the workmanship/aesthetics up to scratch, you have no idea what the playability, tone and intonation will be like. may be good, but it may not. and just paying the license fee is no guarantee. and if it's not then you are stuck between handing over a second rate instrument with your name on it or starting over. guess what, then you will have built a very expensive prototype. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:09 am ] |
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michael you are a wise Old sage I could not agree more
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:16 am ] |
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michael don't think sage is quite appropriate, but certainly know "old" isn't ...  , but guess i will have to gracefully, sort of, accept "older".
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:47 am ] |
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 just teasing
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:57 am ] |
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I've done two of these now and talked to both Ralph and Harry Fleishman about them, harry has a totally cool jig for cutting the fanned fingerboard, when I get my shop back together I'll take a picture and show it in use, it's so simple it's just genius. As for bracing you don't have to re-design the whole layout, you can use some finger bracing to help stabilize the bridge end that hangs out, I have some pictures somewhere of how I did it on my second guitar. As for extra charges, we charge currently $500 just for the fanned fret, it's a good deal more work and despite that I have orders for two more sitting in the queue.. Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:09 am ] |
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Thanks for the advice guys. I think the $500 markup is about right, especially since $75 of that is gone off the top straight to Novax Does anyone have any pictures of the bridge with saddle layout, pins, etc. I'm looking for some design inspiration |
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| Author: | John How [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:20 am ] |
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A google search on "fan fret guitars" brought up several pictures. I understand that you must decide on a focal point, or whatever it may be called where everything converges. What did you have in mind. As far as bridges are concerned I like the fan frets where the bridge ends parallel the fingerboard. Someday I'll have to try one of these out. My understanding is they are really easy to play since the frets pivot like your wrist as you move up the fingerboard, but like I said, I haven't played one so what do I know. Good luck and keep us posted. I'm sure it will be a nice instrument. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:56 am ] |
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Far as I understand, the 'focal point' is mentioned in the patent, but isn't a requirement for the thing to work. There was a major, major discussion over on the MIMF not a very long time ago about the patentability of a fanned frets (since, well, there's a ton and a half of prior art), and to what degree the patents agree with the practice. Pick two scales, decide on angles, taper the board, mark, and slot. Probably still queued up for the library, though. Me, I'm planning on building myself one. Thankfully, since I'm not building for sale in the US, no fees for me. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:39 am ] |
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[QUOTE=John Kinnaird]I'm looking for some design inspiration[/QUOTE] I think Jeff Traugott builds a lot of guitars with fanned frets. He has a really good eye for design. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:46 am ] |
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John I have some on my website of the first fanned I built, it shows how I shaped the bridge, just click on the link at the bottom of my message. Also as mentioned Traugot has done a number of them and you can find pictures there, also Somogyi has some on his site. Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:00 am ] |
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A question for those of you who have played a fan fret guitar, what did you think? Playability, sound, etc.? Does it really make a difference? Thanks! Jeff |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:48 am ] |
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I think Bruce Sexauer has commented on his minimally fanned fret isntruments over on the 13th fret a few time (does the bass side using martin long scale, treble using martin short scale, I believe. Very subtle effect), and he really seems to like what it does. I've never played a fanned fret instrument, but pretty much everyone I've heard from that has says it's odd, but something you get used to quite easily. |
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| Author: | John B [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:50 am ] |
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The one I've played - a Fleishman - was very easy. I didn't notice the fanned frets at all. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:06 pm ] |
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Check out The Changui guitar under the nylon strings on Michael Greenfield's site. www.greenfieldguitars.com It is one nice looking guitar and has fanned frets. Josh |
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