Official Luthiers Forum!

1) Now that it's warming up in the Seattle area - I am noticing something funny (?) about the tuning of my (nylon string) guitar.
The little lights on this, my first electonic tuner, are showing me daily that my strings are 'playing into tune'? When I pick up the guitar after work, the bass strings are a little low and the trebles are a little high. But, from a few seconds to 2 minutes of playing, they "move" back to right-on (green light).
In the winter & spring, when the house was warming-up at night, I'd expect to see a 'cold' string get higher in pitch as it warms up - but what am I missing here?

2) There are two strings (high-E & D) on the first steel-string I built that tune OK with the tuner, a Sabine MT-8000. But, I believe that I can HEAR the pitch moving up, 'sharp' while I tune - though I have a solid green light on the pitch-metering leds. Has anyone else experienced this?

tfl.

in my experience as a cold string warms up it will go flatter not sharper. been to too many sound checks in empty halls, and as soon as the hall fills with folks and the lights go up the tuning goes flat.

the situation you describe with your leds is not unusual; remember you have a finite number of them, not one for every hz of freq change. thus each led has to be triggered by an hz interval change, and the size of the interval may vary with the tuner. if your ears are good you could well hear what you describe. just another reason i prefer good analog metering tuners, or a good campbell strobe.

Michael is right. Most LED tuners have a light for about every 4 or cents off pitch If I remember correctly. Therefore if you were 2.5 cents off pitch the meter will read that you are 4 cents off pitch. If you were 2 cents of pitch the meter will read you are on pitch. LED meters are good only for getting in general tune. What ever you do don't try to intonate a guitar with this meter. you will drive your self nuts. or settle for a guitar that is only close to tempered pitch

I'm not the worlds greatest fan of electronic tuners, they are OK at setting reference pitch but I never use them for tuning every string. The main problem I see with them is that they tune only individual open strings and I tend to play a majority of fretted strings. What I'm trying to achieve with my tunings is a relatively equal temper up the fret board. The way I now tune my guitars was learned from another UK guitar builder and seems to produce a much more balanced tune up the fretboard.

1. Tune 1st E using tuner or tuning fork.

2. Tune 6th with the harmonic on 5th fret as an octave to   the first.

3. Tune 5th by fretting at the 7th fret and tune to octave of the open 1st.

4. Fret the 4th string at the 2nd fret and tune to the octave of open 1st.

5. Fret the 3rd string at the 9th fret and tune to the open 1st

6 Finally of course fret the 2nd at the 5th and tune to the 1st.

It sounds complicated but is very simple when you're doing it. The advantage of this system is that all strings are being tuned to the same reference, the open 1st string, and they are all being tuned to fretted notes, and will contain the amount of "out-of-tuneness" for the equal temper. You should find that the troublesome 2nd/3rd string tuning problem has gone, this major third interval (which is the one needing the most adjustment) should be much improved.

And, the main instument being used is the one that your going to judge the result by, your ear! (You may find that you can use your tuner for all of the strings using the 1st string setting, but ear is best)

I guarantee that the guitar will sound better balanced and sweeter up the neck than with the open string tuning.

ColinColin S38519.2144560185

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Collin this is exactly how I use to tune for a performance or recording. It insures that the temperment from cord to cord is very consitant. New students and pleasure players should print this out and learn it. Good clear process explination Collin

I'm not that well versed on theory. What do you mean by "tune to the octave of the open 1st"? You gotta bring it down to 3rd grade level for me

[QUOTE=Jimmie D] I'm not that well versed on theory. What do you mean by "tune to the octave of the open 1st"? You gotta bring it down to 3rd grade level for me [/QUOTE]

Sorry Jimmie, it simply means the same note, E,as the top E is tuned to, but an octave deeper, if you try it it will sound obvious.

That's right Michael it really does make chords sound cleaner especially as you move up the neck. It is really important in modern style fingerpicking, much more so than with the older travis based styles, which tended to stay in first position.


Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S] [QUOTE=Jimmie D] I'm not that well versed on theory. What do you mean by "tune to the octave of the open 1st"? You gotta bring it down to 3rd grade level for me [/QUOTE]

Sorry Jimmie, it simply means the same note, E,as the top E is tuned to, but an octave deeper, if you try it it will sound obvious.

That's right Michael it really does make chords sound cleaner especially as you move up the neck. It is really important in modern style fingerpicking, much more so than with the older travis based styles, which tended to stay in first position.


Colin[/QUOTE]
Thanks Colin, though I rarely play in standard tuning anymore, I'll give it a try.

_________________
Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

[/QUOTE]
Thanks Colin, though I rarely play in standard tuning anymore, I'll give it a try. [/QUOTE]

Don, Like a lot of players today I also play in dropped tunings a lot, in fact I have a dedicated guitar, a mahogany and cedar OM that has a special string set and is kept in DADGAd and it always comes with me to gigs. When I am tuning it up I start by tuning to the standard tunings using the above method so that it is well temperered, then I make the adjustment for the altered tuning, it still makes a difference believe me.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Don A]

Thanks Colin, though I rarely play in standard tuning anymore, I'll give it a try. [/QUOTE]

Don are a Drop D kinda guy