Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi Guys,
I have a serious question that I need help with. How do you folks and many of the Big Guys get those tops so lily white and clean of the natural grain lines and such?
I just prayed a sitka spruce top with urethane and before spraying it there did not appear as it does now.
Every grain line and whatever showed up "Big Time".
The top looks like a 70 yr old Martin I once owned.
Instant antique finish. I know urethane has a yellowing effect and I can live with that..it looks cool. But the numerous lines and different shades showed up too??
Do you folks Bleach your tops?
Your help will be appreciated.
Thanks, WalterK

It's called "Englemann Spruce"

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Don is right...Englemann...Old German is very white but very seldom seen nowadays. White Spruce can be quite white but the grain will definitely show whereas Englemann the grain is very subdued.

Don...
I know what Engleman spruce looks like.
I'm talking about Sitka Sp.
Perhaps I didn't express myself properly. I should post a picture to make it more clear.
I was at a local music store today and looked at several sitka spruce topped guitars. They did not experience the problem I'm having with my top.
Thanks

I think people that want a white top just pay for white tops. That has historically been one of the factors that affected grading of tops, if you had a AAAA+ top, it had to be colorless in addition to being stiff, consistent and tightly grained.

Funny, I rather like some color in my tops. One of the enjoyable things about Sitka is that you can count on some tans and pinks showing up. I would never bleach a top.

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

My limited (so far) experience with spruce is that, of the North American varieties, Engelmann is the whitest and shows the lightest grain lines. Some, if not most, sitka will show darker grain lines, lots of silk (if well quartersawn) and often streaks of color. Euro varieties are often quite white colored, but Engelmann seems to be whiter than the German and "Euro" I've used.

Me, I =like= that sort of aged look that often sitka exhibits once a finish is put to it. It gives the guitar a bit of that pre-aged look that seems to be the rage with the custom shops these days.

Best,

Michael

_________________
Live to Play, Play to Live

I would question your finish clarity. Are you sure it is water white clear finish? If not that will impart some color to the wood. Also consider sealing the top with a vinyl washcoat or a de-waxed clear shellac. This will prevent the finsh from seeping into the pores and bringing out unexpected color.

By the way, the Carpatian Spruce that I have been using is even whiter than Engleman.

_________________
tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Unless I am off base, I think what he is saying is he wants the grain lines to be very feint (as well as a very white top). Carpathian is very white, but its grain is pronounced.

Tight grained Englemann has nearly invisible grain lines.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Walter,

what grit did you sand too before applying your finish? Also, did you happen to use a sealer (shellac or z poxy etc) under the finish. Sometime sitka has lines in it from pitch which cause discoloration. What grade sitka are you using? And finally, what brand urethane are you using? ILVA distributed by Camger has a water white acrylic urethane with UV protectors that will not add the amber color present in traditional urethanes.

Walter don't get me wrong here, I don't have any issues with a top being paper white. However, I have to say I prefer to see slight variances in my tops. I like the grain and silking to be apparent. I guess that is just the wood lover in me showing, but if a top came out like a piece of paper I would find it boring. I get my kicks seeing the individual character of each piece of wood appear and become distinct under the finish.

Hi Robbie,
The grade of Sitka was 3A.
I used 800 grit paper to sand before finish.
The finish was Minwax urethane.
Don't get me wrong...it's not a disaster, it's just that some dark lines showed up that I did not see before the finish was applied.
The top now looks like a cheap quality, but it's a good top with tight grain and sounds great.
This may tuen out to be a great player but not such a good looker if you know what I mean.
Thanks

Cheap quality???

When I took the french polish class with Marshall Brune, he showed me a way to intensify the grain using an egg white fill.

I'll never understand the steel string world.

Seriously, keep in mind that although you may not like the look, it'll ring the bell of plenty of other people.rlabbe38533.6138773148

Walter, my guess is that the urethane product you used from Minwax has a high enough oil content that it darkened the top in the areas where it penetrated the wood more. Every company has their own recipe for varnishes and they vary greatly. just my 2 cents worth.

I'm with Michael in regard to top coloration. I like to see grain in the top. I've even got a couple of sets of strawberry and cream red cedar. The grain and color patterns can really add another dimension to the overall look. Lets face it, a lot of excellent wood gets passed over.

_________________
Don Atwood
Arlington, VA