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Stu/Mac v LMI manual frett slotting syste
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Author:  bob J [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:13 am ]
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which company offers the best Manual Fret slotting system? Is the special Japanese saw superior. Is there another system you like better?
Thank you,
Author:  Brock Poling [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:23 am ]
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I have the LMI version of the manual slotting tool with the japanese pull saw.

The tool is very well made. However it takes quite a bit of practice to get it right. The blade guides need to be REALLY tight to keep the kerf small ... but ... if they are too tight, you can't pull/push the saw.

It took me about 15 boards or so before I could consistantly cut uniform fret slots.

I would recommend it if you want to make the investment in time and sacrifice fingerboards. If not, I would go with a power slotting system.

Author:  LanceK [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:07 am ]
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I have the StewMac outfit, the blade and template/pin, it took about 10 minutes to set up, and the first board I cut was perfect, the scale matches the Sloan rule perfectly, thats nice! It takes about 10 minutes to slot a board using this system.
Author:  RussellR [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:40 am ]
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Hi Bob

I have the stewmac version too, I use just their regular saw in it. I have a japaneese saw that I use for lots of other things and they cut beautifully. I don't use mine for fretting as the blade on mine is too thin, but I think the LMI one is a special version.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:21 am ]
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What I have found is that sometimes the slot gets too wide. I wonder if it is that thin blade flexing that is causing the problem. I was thinking about getting the "other" saw they sell for it and trying it with that.

It is a good system, but like I said, I had to spend some time getting the "touch" for how much pressure to put on the blade.
Author:  RussellR [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:36 am ]
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Brock

I don't have the LMI Version but mine is the same make so I am not sure about how they compare, when I try to use it for fret slooting although the kerf is the right width. the blade flexes and I find the slot too wide or off line.

It cuts ebony like butter but not acurate enough.
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:38 am ]
Post subject: 
Brock,
I am suprised to hear that. I think it might be flexing in your blade. I looked at both the SM and LMI. The SM was about half the price. I went with the SM. The only reason I bought a manual system was that I had some nice boards the were partially slotted and I wanted to finish them. Seemed easier to align everything with the hand system. LMI's box certainly looked much better made for accuracy. But maybe that's it's down fall. Sometimes things are over built to be more versitile and wind up being more of a pain than anything. The SM system worked well and was very easy to set up. I did purchase the fret slotting saw that they recommend and of course sell.

That being said...I think you are much better off using your table saw. I made a sled similar to Sylvan's and slotted a bunch of boards in no time. I use stabilizers. I bought blades from both LMI and SM and then found that Victor Machinery sells them with all different kerfs for much less.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:11 am ]
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Brock, I vote for a bit of blade flex there.

I use and very much like the StewMac setup. Simple, well made, sturdy, and the new stainless stell templates are a good thing (the old one, plexi, ended up snapping on me. Got overzealous with the doublstick tape).

I do not, however, like their saw. The old version (Before the flipped it around) is less than useless on ebony, painfully slow, takes forever. I ended up getting a Japanese pull saw from a UK supplier (emailed them, asked which kerf was right) and that works a charm. Think is, you need a careful, even pull stroke, no twist or flex, but it only takes about 3-4 pulls to finish a fret slot (when the teeth on the crosscut blade are through, I'm deep enough. I can use stewmac's saw to deepen any slot that isn't quite right). The saw I've got isn't backed, but it sure does the job quickly, painlessly (I don't have to work it, just pull it quite gently), and accurately. The first board I did I went a little too 'fast', and some of the slots ended up a bit wide in the middle (blade flex), but the last three all came out dead-on perfect. Pic of the saw in the mitrebox:



The slots:


Did each board in maybe 10 minutes. They're rough-radiussed (router sled, cheap 'n dirty), hence the unfinished surface. These two are on the strat+tele project I'm stalled on (need a finish, basically).
Author:  RussellR [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 
HI Dave

I too like the stewmac system, and it works great with the stewmac saw (New version) I had the old one which I agree was useless, my Japaneese saw is just to thin for fret slotting and it is this that flexs. Mattia your looks more substaintial than the one I have.
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I bought the new one too...it just made sense.
Author:  Don A [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:29 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] Brock,
I am suprised to hear that. I think it might be flexing in your blade. I looked at both the SM and LMI. The SM was about half the price. I went with the SM. The only reason I bought a manual system was that I had some nice boards the were partially slotted and I wanted to finish them. Seemed easier to align everything with the hand system. LMI's box certainly looked much better made for accuracy. But maybe that's it's down fall. Sometimes things are over built to be more versitile and wind up being more of a pain than anything. The SM system worked well and was very easy to set up. I did purchase the fret slotting saw that they recommend and of course sell.

That being said...I think you are much better off using your table saw. I made a sled similar to Sylvan's and slotted a bunch of boards in no time. I use stabilizers. I bought blades from both LMI and SM and then found that Victor Machinery sells them with all different kerfs for much less. [/QUOTE]

Dave, you can also pick up blades from MSC.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:37 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=RussellR] HI Dave

I too like the stewmac system, and it works great with the stewmac saw (New version) I had the old one which I agree was useless, my Japaneese saw is just to thin for fret slotting and it is this that flexs. Mattia your looks more substaintial than the one I have.[/QUOTE]

Russel: that's Axminsters crosscut Haussunume (or some similar spelling), which works pretty much perfectly. I genereally widen the slots marginally with a few swipes from StewMac's fret slot cleaning chisel (takes about a minute or two to do the whole board, and I usually have to clean out the slots properly right before fretting anyway, what with binding, sanding gunk and whatnot), and stewmac fretwire pops in without compalints. Tip: the handle for crosscut and rip versions of that particular saw both have the same handle, so you can just get one saw and replacement blades and save some cash. I've got one crosscut blad dedicated to slotting (you can see the little 'F' I wrote on the corner of the blade if you look carefully) and another for general trim work. Also have a tiny backed japanese saw, and I will be getting a few more intermediate sized ones in future, methinks. This one's about 2 feet long, including handle. Blade also goes 'zing' when you flick it, so it's perfect for practicing your samurai swordfighting moves.

Not, of course, that I would do such a thing with a saw. That's dangerous. And very dorky.

Ahem.
Author:  RussellR [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank Mattia

I have the slightly smaller one which is great for many jobs but not slotting, I was about to message you to see if that was the cross cut or the rip.

The way they cut is very impressive.

Thanks for the information, Glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks they are samari swords
Author:  Dave Rector [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I have used the StewMac setup for several years now. I used to curse my way through cutting an ebony board and it would take forever.

Then a friend gave me a new StewMac pull saw and the difference is like day and night.
Author:  RussellR [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
About the same here Dave
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:52 am ]
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I bought an LMI pull saw last year, but ended up buying the StewMac fret slotting system over the LMI one, mostly because it was a LOT cheaper.

I also needed to be able to modify it to handle extra wide fingerboards. I've built two 10-string classicals so far, and have slotted their fingerboards using the Stewmac system. It required that I insert an additional bottom plate, 1.5" wide. Easy enough to do, but the LMI one looks like this same sort of mod would have been more difficult, if not impossible.

I too have some issues with the saw binding when cutting through ebony. I've found that if I use this spray stuff that's designed to remove wood resins, etc. from saw blades that this helps some.

Still, it can be slow going, but not so slow enough to want to think about doing it by hand.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Brock

I also have the LMI version of the manual slotting tool with the japanese pull saw. And have experienced all the things that you described. I have done about 10 boards with it and I think I am starting to get the hang of it. The saw cuts greatin ebony. But I wrecked one saw on a snakewood board. I did get the board slotted but it took forever.

JoshJosh H38568.0341666667
Author:  Brock Poling [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:40 am ]
Post subject: 

Yeah, now that I read back over my posts it seems as if I am dissing the tool. I am not -- it is really nicely built. My only reservation about it is that it takes some practice to get the hang of.

I still wonder if I get the older style of saw if it will work better. I am ** almost ** sure that the blade in the japanese saw is bowing when you push and pull through the guides. Perhaps a heavier guage blade won't do this as bad.

I can make the japense saw work, but I usually make a few practice cuts to make sure the guides are not too tight or too loose before I start cutting on the actual fingerboard.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:29 am ]
Post subject: 
I have the L.M.I. system with their non japanese saw and it's "perfect". I (think) the saw they supply is a Pax (Sheffield England)

       Kiwi
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