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| Author: | FrankC [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:03 am ] |
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Well, I have decided to stick with a hand plan eto join my tops and backs. I was looking at the Lie-Nielson No. 7 Jointer Plane or the Low Angle Jointer. Are there any handplane experts out there? Which one do you think someone would find more useful in their tool collection? There is a hundred dollar difference as the No 7 is 400 and the low angle jointer is 295. Also, for those who may know, the no 7 has 2 models, a plain no 7 and a no 7 corrugation...what is the difference? |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:10 am ] |
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I don't think you want the corretation. The sole of the plane is not smooth but folded lengthwise(corregated) so that it make less contact with the surface. Works great if the surface is wide. If the surface is not wide (like the edge of a plate) then it could fit into one of those coregation valleys enough to throw off accuracy. |
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| Author: | FrankC [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:15 am ] |
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Thanks John. That limits the choices to 2 now! |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:31 am ] |
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Hi Frank The purpose of the low angle is to avoid chip out and tearing on highly figured or long grained woods, or where you need to plain end grain. the lower angle prevents the blade from digging in. That said they are versatile in all scenarios but maybe not so good when you wish to remove alot of stock. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:42 am ] |
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Frank My other thoughts on Planes, Lie-Nielson are beautifully made planes, but the cost in my humble opinion is disproportionate. If you have your heart set on one then fair enough. The cheaper option would be to look for an old Stanley or Record (These can usually be picked up fairly cheaply although the jointers are harder to find) give it a bit of love and true the sole, fit a good quality blade (I like the laminated japeneese ones). You will have a Plane that is of the Lie Nielson and will have brought an unloved tool back in to the hands of someone who wants to use it. A bit more hassle but a fraction of the cost. Just a thought. |
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| Author: | Joe V [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:17 pm ] |
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I have the Lie Nielson 7 1/2. Very good plane. Its ready to use right out of the box. When I was looking at them the main difference for what I wanted to use it for, joining tops and backs, was the price. The 7 is a bench plane and has the blade set at 45 degrees. The blade bevel faces down. The 7 1/2 is a block plane and has the blade set at 12 degrees and the bevel faces up. For wood as thin as tops and backs I don't believe the angle makes much difference. For other projects, I think the steeper angle of the bench planes would work easier on hard or figured woods but might be too aggresive on other woods. I've got several planes and nothing matches the quality of the Lie Nielsons. Joe Volin |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:22 pm ] |
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i will be the contrarian: during the time when i was thicknessing plates and sides by hand i found even a no 6 was too big, heavy and cumbersome and went back to my trusty no 5 jacks. which i also still use for joining the plates for gluing. i don't think guitar woods are of sufficient size to warrant the use of planes that large. it's a bit like using and elephant gun on whitetails!! corrugated soles are very useful when flattening resinous woods. there is less surface area in contact with the stock to cause drag making the plane much easier to move over the surface. can be quite useful for flattening and thicknessing but not, as mentioned above, for joining thin stock. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:29 pm ] |
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You might also consider a Steve Knight plane. He makes wooden planes of very high quality. His jointer plane is 24", and runs $166 from his website. I have one, and it's my only jointer plane. If you are patient, he occasionally sells them on e-bay for a good discount. His website is www.knight-toolworks.com Apart from the fact that his planes are outstanding, they are also built by hand, by one guy, out of wood. On this forum, that seems particularly significant. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:34 pm ] |
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I bought 2 of the Anant planes from Highland Hardware (Made in India). The castings are decent quality but the surfaces require truing up. So I honed them dead flat and replaced their crappy blades with Hock blades. For $50 for the #4 smoothing plane and $80 for a #7 Jointer and another $70 for Hock blades I have an investment of $200 for 2 planes that would have cost $700 for Lie-Neilsen models. While there's no comparison to the fit and finish between the 2, the quality of the work the Anant produces is similar. It's all a matter of keeping it well tuned and the blades sharp. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:57 pm ] |
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Check out the Veritas standard angle block plane: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47881&cat=1,41 182,48942 It is massively built. Excellent quality. Not cheap at $100. But it blows away the Stanley 9-1/2 and will give the Lie-Nielsen equivalent a solid run for the money for $50 less. I own one of these and I am extremely satisfied with it. The sole was almost perfectly flat when I bought it, requiring almost no truing up. The iron is made from excellent quality steel -- it holds an edge for a loooong time. It has an adjustable throat, and unlike the equivalent Lie-Nielsen, the blade has a swing adjustment. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:25 pm ] |
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whilst i agree a good block plane is a very useful addition to the tool kit, and have read good things about the veritas offering, i feel a block plane is far too short for joining purposes. i also tend to agree with the poster above who recommended trying to find a good quality used stanley or record, or a sargeant or millers falls or other good quality plane that used to be so common before "power" took over. i must have ten or twelve planes and all were acquired from garage sale, flea markets, auctionsand the like. the cheapest was a stanley scrub for about $6 or $7 and the dearest was the no 7 at $25. after tuning and when properly adjusted, they all will take shavings that you can read through, and whilst they may take a bit more maintenance, a $10 or $20 plane is a lot easier on the bank balance than a $150-$450 dollar version. |
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| Author: | Barry Dudley [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:22 pm ] |
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You might also want to look at the Veritas Low Angle. Veritas palnes are as high quality as Lie Nelson but a little less expensive. I have some of both including the Veritas Low angle and it is one of my most used planes. |
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| Author: | Dickey [ Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:45 pm ] |
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Mine is a six inch Atlas made in Kalamazoo in the 30's. I think it's about time to change the belt though. Blades are sharp, Craftsman. |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 12:28 am ] |
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I've got the LN 4-1/2 smoother plane, and I use it for jointing. I do wish I had a longer plane for jointing, but the 4-1/2 works fine enough that I don't feel like spending another couple hundred bucks. It does take a little more finesse and touch up than it likely would with a longer plane. But the result is still a nice tight joint without forcing the plates together. It's a pretty versatile plane, so it can be used for lots of other things as well. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 1:21 am ] |
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Another suggestion, outside the box! I am unsure if you are selecting to use a hand plane because you don't have a jointer or because, as I have found, jointing thin top and back plates just isn't the same as jointing a 3/4 inch board. But what I do is joint the plates both at the same time (holding them togeher) then finish off the edge before glueing with a couple of passes over a sanding board (really just some 120 grit thinkness drum sanding paper on my flat table saw top). Keep the plates square to the sanding surface and again passing both of them at the same time and Bob's yer uncle! Works good for me. If you don't have a jionter, the veritas planes from Lee Valley are probably one of the best options for the dollar, they are tools that you will be proad to know will be sought after by the kids long after you are gone! Mine are anyway. Shane |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:41 am ] |
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Russel: Low angle planes tend to tear out _more_ on figured wood than standard ones. One of my students is making an Osage guitar, and brough in a high-angle plane for the smoothing job. It's not too bad with a microbevel on the iron. Low angle planes are easier to push through end grain, and a good one will take shavings from end grain. I could not have made the little leaves for the 'Autumn' guitar without my Lee Valley low angle plane, but it's a disaster on figured wood, particularly if it's soft. I(and my students) have done all of my joining and smoothing for thirty years with a #4 Record. That includes stuff like hammered dulcimer tops and backs (4 feet long, and four to six pieces), archtop guitars, Tenor violins, everything. What matters is not so much the length of the sole but how well the plane is tuned and sharpened. Some people find the shooting board easier, but I usually just clamp the two pieces together and true them up. I'd say for an all-around plane get a #4 or 4-1/2. The Lee Valley and Lie-Neilson ones are really nice, if you can afford them. The Record planes work about as well once you've taken the time to tune them up, particularly if you put in a Hock blade. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 8:00 am ] |
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Alan Thank you I will bow to your greater knowledge on such matters, my assumption was based on the fact that if you can plane across the end grain with one, I would asume that the low angle would work well with figure. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:50 pm ] |
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Russell, the lower the angle, the easier it is to slice into the board (and easier to plane), but the more likely it is to lift the grain. Lie-Nielsen offers a high-angle frog specifically designed for highly-figured woods. It takes a bit more effort to push, but gives outstanding results. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:55 pm ] |
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Thanks Alan and Kelby I see what you are saying, just to complete my understanding, is it right to say that a lower angle would cut further ahead of the blade ? so effectively peel the wood, rather than slice it ? |
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| Author: | Glen S. [ Fri Aug 05, 2005 10:08 pm ] |
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I use a plain old Stanley Low angle plane with the adjustable throat. I put a micro bevel on the iron...and always plane across the grain with the plane skewed. This will handle the figured woods...( Blade better be sharp...) and will do tops without a problem. What does happen is blow out of the wood along the edge of the board. Two ways to combat this...turn the plane around so that the nose is facing you, and just work the far edge first.( Pull the plane towards you!!) Just blow into the edge and take it down..and get it out of the way. When you plane across the grain there will now be a low spot, on the edge, and the plane will not rip out the edge of the plate. Alternatively, you can plane across the grain and just as you get to the edge...lift the plane. I find a nice thickness sander works well also!! Best of luck, Glen S. |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:46 am ] |
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You can mitigate the tearout of a low-angle plane by adjusting the throat to be as narrow as you can get away with and stil clear the shavings. The microbevel (on the bevel side, of course) helps too. The pressure of the sole of the plane in front of the cut helps keep it from 'cutting ahead' too far. BTW, I find that the Lee Valley plane, as good asit is, does not work very well on bone. The hard blade tends to chip. For that I use my low angle Stanley. |
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