Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

More Arm rest (bevel) questions
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2874		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:00 am ]
Post subject: 
OK GUYS I WANT SOME HELP!

Have a look at this picture I took at the GAL conference last year. This guitar was made by a guy from someplace in Indonesia (Not Jeffery Young) and I am just blown away by the beveled arm rest.   How did he do this?

The maple binding seems to be all one piece. It just turns the corner from the waist and then begins to spread out to a bevel.

If that bevel is no thicker than the binding to start with, then how did the original piece look before it was bent? Seems to me it must have been cut out curved in that particular area.   

This looks like a Ryan guitar to an extent but its done in Maple for heaven sake.

HOW DID HE DO THIS?????


Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Ahem, like I said guys I need some help with this!
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Interesting...it must have started as a wide slice of binding, then bent to shape and trimmed (could be, maybe, I think).

An additional thought...it looks like the bevel section may have been thinned to veneer depth before bending (?), so it wouldn't need heat/steam to make that compound fit.CarltonM38582.6409837963
Author:  Jerry Hossom [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:59 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=CarltonM] Interesting...it must have started as a wide slice of binding, then bent to shape and trimmed (could be, maybe, I think).[/QUOTE]

That would be my guess, though it is possible to pretty well hide a joint in some of that flame, especially if it's scarfed.
Author:  JBreault [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:27 am ]
Post subject: 
I think I see a joint hidden in the dark part of the flame.
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:35 am ]
Post subject: 
JB,

Hmmm, you might be right. Looks like it had to be cut from the same, continuous, piece of wood, though. Nice work, in any case!
Author:  RussellR [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:58 am ]
Post subject: 
John I wanted to help earlier but I looked at it long and hard, and to be honest I'm baffled
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:05 am ]
Post subject: 
If he thinned it before bending it, which makes sense, then he had to cut that part in a crescent so just imagine how that long piece of purfling looked. It must have been pretty long, at least 31 inches and bent in the middle, like the letter L with a curved joint between the arms. This would take a big piece of maple. Or is it possible to bend maple into a compound curve.

Pardon my speculating outloud, so to speak, but if you took a straight piece then bent it to guitar shape, then tried to force the bevel section over at a 45 degree angle the top part would have a significantly smaller radius than the lower half. I dunno if it could be forced into such a compound curve. (that is why I cut my armrest bevel as a crescent before bending)

BUT, it looks like the grain runs parallel to the sides which would not be the case if it was cut in a crescent.


AAAAARrrrrgggghhhhh
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:00 am ]
Post subject: 
   I'm going to guess that there is a joint nicely executed and hidden well between the binding and bevel portions of that piece of Maple. If not, that would have to be a pretty wide piece to give those results, especially with the compound nature of the bevel's curve.

Awesome looking piece of work, but your bevel was not hard to look at either. I'm looking forward to seeing your work completed and finished. It looked great to me in the photos.

    I've had a few pieces that I've begun bevels on, but I was really making an effort to avoid using either Grit Laskin's or Kevin Ryan's methods so they are still sitting and waiting for my attention. One day when I'm not so busy I'll get back to them.

    it's always inspiring to see the work of other builders.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  Jerry Hossom [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
He didn't really have to cut the crescent. If the binding were ~1" (whatever is the maximum width of the arm rest) wide all around, he could glue it on then trim it back. Then cut the purfling channel. There's probably a backing material behind the maple on the arm rest.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:26 am ]
Post subject: 
You may be right Kevin and JBreault. There may be a joint in there somewhere. If so he did a great job matching it up. Maple is mighty unforgiving.

I hope to have mine finished soon and will post pics. However, I have a nagging suspicion that there is a much easier way to do these things than the route I took.

John
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
But Jerry
   If he left it 1 inch thick how could he bend it around the curve of the lower bout? Seems like it would be too thick to bend.

John
Author:  Jerry Hossom [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was thinking 1" wide, not thick. Thickness is normal for binding, allowing it to twist to fit the angle of the rest. The maple on the rest might be very thin. Just a thought.
Author:  John Kinnaird [ Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
The problem with letting it twist is that it has a narrower radius at the top than it does at the bottom. I was wondering if that would work. The top of the purfling would be in compression but Maple could be able to make those adjustments. It might be worth experimenting to see.
Author:  Colin S [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:12 am ]
Post subject: 
I think he probably took a young maple sapling and as it grew he tied it to a shaped form so that when he wanted to build the guitar he just cut the tree down already set in shape. I know this takes long term planning, but it could work.

Colin
Author:  Jerry Hossom [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:14 am ]
Post subject: 
It looks to me like that is what happened. At the rest's center the purfling has swallowed that radius.
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:17 am ]
Post subject: 
   I spoke with Jim Olson a while ago and he commented on how quickly Kevin Ryan is able to do one of his bevels on a guitar. He said that it took Kevin about 20 minutes to do it. I'm hoping to visit Kevin's shop in the future and to spend a little time with him.

Amazing, but Kevin is an amazing guy with awesome insight and talent for getting his ideas to reality in wood.

Jim Olson is no slouch on that area ether. If you are able to flip one of Jim's guitars around for a few minutes and really study its details, you'll surely be amazed at the details that are common to all of them. I spent some time with Phil Keaggy a couple of months ago and he had a new Olson SJ with him that just blew me away. It's tone was great both backstage acoustically and onstage as Phil played it to its potential and beyond. Some of the most inspiring things things about it though were jim's creative innovations in its design.

   These guys are the best in the world in my opinion.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher
Author:  EricKeller [ Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:05 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=JBreault] I think I see a joint hidden in the dark part of the flame.[/QUOTE]

Isn't the joint 2 stripes below the bottom of your circle? There are some pretty narrow stripes, perfect for hiding a joint. The only thing that makes me think it was bent is the radial pattern of the stripes through the beveled section.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/