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A REQUEST - EVERYONE READ THIS!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=2917		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  LanceK [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:13 am ]
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Ok - a few issues I feel lead to address.

The OLF is a forum dedicated to furthering the art of Acoustic Guitar building, fellowshipping with other like minded individuals and providing a friendly inviting online experience for everyone and every age group to enjoy.

The events of late are everything but!

I'm going to kindly ask out of respect for the MIMF, its administration and patrons that we end the heated exchange.
If you want to voice your frustration please do so elsewhere.

Also, (and I blame myself for this) Please stop using swear words no matter now insignificant you think they are. When I started the OLF, I had intended on making an environment that would be safe for every age group. I intend to keep it that way. I blame myself, because im its not in my nature to staunchly enforce the rules, and because of that they are being broken.

Lastly - Religion and Politics, please respect the view of others and keep your feelings and expressions of these two subjects to a minimum.

OK - Lets get back to why were all here! Acoustic Guitars!

Sincerely.
LanceKLanceK38586.3870833333
Author:  Brock Poling [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:38 am ]
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Thanks... I am certainly ready for this all to end.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:45 am ]
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Thanks Lance! I've certainly had enough of all that.

Also, I try real hard to watch my language here, as well as when posting on other forums. If I slip and accidentally use a swear word, please feel free to replace it with a more appropriate word. Or drop me a line and I will go in and change it.

I agree, we should be the kind of forum where folks aren't afraid to let their kids hang out.
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:06 am ]
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     In public forums, even where some can feel the priviledge has been earned to use inappropriate language or insult freely simply because they have been members since day one, it is common to see heated issues discussed and usually at the expense of others and their reputations that are so hard earned. I don't use the language in any venue whether in type or in spoken word so it's never an effort for me, but I consider these forums the equivilent of being in someone else's home as a guest where I don't know all of the other guests and out of respect for their possible feelings about issues will take the time to read a post before hitting the post reply button. It's easy enough to edit a post, but it's pretty hard to miss a bad choice for words to express yourself in type since there are a few more steps in the communication process than simply speaking to someone. In live conversation, you really have to stay on top of yourself or you'll find yourself apologizing alot, but that can be avoided in type since you can take it back before it ever gets out there and offends anyone.

    You're running a nice community here, Lance and I hope it stays on track for you and those who are regulars. With timely and tactful moderating like this, I'm sure it will. I've watched as several others that I was a part of from the very ground level have taken the typical road toward pleasing everybody for the sake of maintaining size and increasing support. That road is one that tolerates all from everyone and is alot like other facets of society where those demanding the most tolerance for their views are the same folks who are least tolerant of others'. It becomes a very uncomfortable place for us reasonable people who are just looking for a place to talk guitars and make some new friends.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  Cocephus [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:28 am ]
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   AMEN
Author:  Dickey [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:05 am ]
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Thanks Lance. The reason for government is to prevent anarchy and chaos. Another reason is to protect your property.

A forum must be governed or it will become chaotic.

May I suggest making the simple rules of the OLF readily available? I can't seem to find them anymore and made this call within the last couple weeks.

It seems they're somewhere, but shucks I can't find them. The forum rules don't need to be full of "thou shalt nots". It needs to be full of the ideals and positive objectives of why the forum exists. The goals are what's important.

Also, every member of the forum has within their power to support or work against what those purposes are determined to be. When someone screws up, it's everyone's duty to correct, not just the main moderators.

I like spirited debate, but if that's not a purpose of the forum, then it should be excluded in the goals and clearly stated.

Many groups and even governments have fallen into decline and even demise due to failure in this area of clear goals and purposes. And as unsavory as it is to pop the whip in public, it just has to be done. The blue lights we see along the public highways are an example. Someone broke the rules and will pay dearly.

This sounds vaguely familiar....
Author:  Roy O [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:42 am ]
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Thank you Lance.
Author:  Mjoy [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:39 am ]
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Thanks Lance.
Author:  BlueSpirit [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:51 am ]
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and AMEN!
Author:  D.L.Huskey [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:09 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dickey]
Also, every member of the forum has within their power to support or work against what those purposes are determined to be. When someone screws up, it's everyone's duty to correct, not just the main moderators.[/QUOTE]

Sound words of advice from Uncle Dickey



[QUOTE=LanceK]
OK - Lets get back to why were all here! Acoustic Guitars!
[/QUOTE]

Thank you Lance.
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:18 am ]
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OK...following your advise, installed a rosette last night.

Building guitars is what this is all about. Keep up the good work work Lance.

Shane
Author:  old man [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:32 am ]
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Atta boy, Lance.

Ron
Author:  JeremiahB. [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:38 am ]
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Very well said, Lance. If I wanted this much drama, I'd start watching soap operas!
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:45 am ]
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[QUOTE=LanceK] Lastly - Religion and Politics, please respect the view of others and keep your feelings and expressions of these two subjects to a minimum. [/QUOTE]

Thanks, Lance!

On politics, I would go a step further: I would like to see no politics here, not even what someone considers a "minimum." Political discussion, (or worse, political jabbing) is very divisive (trust me, I have VERY negative feelings towards one of the major political parties in the US, and I feel strongly divided when many political discussions come up.) Plus, this is an international forum, albeit dominated in numbers by US participants at the moment, so any one country's political banter is not very interesting to at least some members.

As for religion, may I recommend more of a stance of leading by example rather than prostletizing. This place has to be as safe for Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, Rastafarians, Scientologists, those with Aboriginal beliefs, and Agnostics as it is for Christians. That is, if we really are inviting those of other faiths (or no faith) to join in the luthier discussions.

Less is more. If you really want people to listen, whisper.

Dennis
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:56 am ]
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Wait a minute: Lutherie is not a religion?
Author:  Dennis Leahy [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:00 am ]
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[QUOTE=Alan Carruth] Wait a minute: Lutherie is not a religion?[/QUOTE]
Next time you buy a load of lumber, try telling the IRS you are buying sacramental supplies, and hope you get a nice cellmate!

Dennis
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:00 am ]
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No it's a Sickness!
Author:  Brad Goodman [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:02 am ]
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Weren't we just at a "Lutheran's" symposium?
Author:  sfbrown [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:00 am ]
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Ya know, I honestly thought that everyone would vent their spleen and that would be the end of it. I can't believe the level of animous out there.

As for the language, If I've slipped, it is unintentional. As for the double entendres, I do so with pride! Just kidding.

Sincerely, Steve Brown

PS ***Confidential to Dennis Leahy***
Dennis, I draw the line at Wiccan! I will continue to razz those who dare to frequent the forum! Just as I have done in the past
Author:  Don Williams [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:16 am ]
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[QUOTE=sfbrown]PS ***Confidential to Dennis Leahy***
Dennis, I draw the line at Wiccan! I will continue to razz those who dare to frequent the forum! Just as I have done in the past [/QUOTE]

Uh...sorry I read that!

Actually, one of the very nicest people I have ever known, a person I worked with, was a wiccan. I judged her harshly at first (internally, not outwardly), and learned that she really was a kind, caring person who wanted to do good things for other people and in the world. I was humbled. I learned not to judge other people for their religious beliefs at that job.

As I said in another thread, I know several folks who are put off by threads with a religious content. Maybe that stuff is better left for the Private Messenger function.

The problem with a community such is this is that you tend to form bonds with people who share your personal views, and the temptation to express one's feelings openly can be a very strong thing. In any community setting, you have to learn where to draw your own lines so as not to offend others.
Author:  RussellR [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:40 am ]
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John

I think you raise a very good point there about getting to know people and forming bonds.

For me it is one of the things I like about this Forum that people do that and it is not a totally sterile discusion.

I agree one has to be careful as different people find different thing offensive, but for me if someone has something going on and wants to share that and ask for a prayer then I can't see how that could offend.

I find the people here to be very curtious and treat each other with respect.

Lance

I like your style of mediation and I as most of the people here do, I respect your house, and if we get out of line just say the word.


I'll stop rambling on know
Author:  sfbrown [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:38 am ]
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Don,

Please notice the emoticons. It was a joke. Wiccans do have trouble maintaining their tax-free status though. Please feel free to check the archives to see where I have actually dissed wiccans much less ANY religion. Please, let's all lighten up. To paraphrase Freud, "Sometimes a joke IS just a joke."

I grew up with a gay sibling. I have put up with an enormous amount of prejudice over the years. Both against her and aimed at me (because I'm not). Rather than become defensive at every comment, I have chosen to take the other course. I simply realize that people will make thoughtless remarks and then I move on. Some are serious, some are not. To become overly sensitive will not cure the problem, it will only prolong and promulgate it.

This whole discussion is a form of Floccinaucinihilipilification.

I think that is a cool word.

I wish you had focused on my post as a whole rather than on one sentence. Context means everything at times. I could have as easily said, Anglicans (of which I am one) but that wouldn't have had the impact and therefore would not have buttrussed my point. Rest assured, I will NEVER, under any circumstances mention religion again.

Regards, Steve Brown

PS I should get points for being able to spell it, at least!
Author:  CarltonM [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:55 am ]
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Okay, how about Druids? Anybody know a Druid?
Author:  tippie53 [ Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:22 pm ]
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Please accept my apology as my intent wasn't to bring forth such a debate. My we all agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
   Thanks for the island of sanity
John Hall
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