*Zing* over Zoot? Hmm you might have something there Steve
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| French Polish Supplier-- Kroger! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3107 |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:53 pm ] |
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Who'd a thunk it? Wandering around mindlessly at Kroger's tonight while my wife was shopping, I came across their olive oil selection. Right there among the pretty bottles from Italy was a bottle of Walnut oil. I'm no FP expert, but I've read that this is the oil of choice? And there it was, right here in the backwoods of Texas. But then, I noticed next to that a bottle of Grapeseed oil from Italy, and next to that a bottle of Hazelnut oil from France. Closer inspection revealed Olive oils w/ Basil, Lemon extract, Garlic (I'll pass), Red Pepper, etc. I half expected Emeril to pop out and shout "Bam!" OK--anybody used any of these cool products? Is my excitement simply because I was hungry, or is this worth trying? If it is, I'm now glad I don't have to drive to Houston, or sneak over to the health food store to do my shopping. Steve |
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| Author: | Mark Swanson [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:17 pm ] |
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I use walnut oil when I french polish. I first read about it in the old LMI handbook, and since then I've seen it mentioned in a lot of other places. It really does mix well with the shellac, and seems to do what it's supposed to do- make the shellac go on and build better and also make it more durable and harder upon curing. That stuff will work. But make sure you get oil that has no additives, and is 100% oil. You don't want or need the other stuff in your finish! |
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| Author: | Cocephus [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:30 pm ] |
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So it is possible to use an oil and fp together? I know this isn`t exactly what you`re talking about, but I fooled around with some walnut danish tung oil the other night and was pleasantly surprised, but still wondered about durability (within reason). |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:29 pm ] |
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to french polish in the traditional way oil is required. i use walnut as my first chouce. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:14 pm ] |
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Thanks for the replies, guys. But no one recommends red pepper olive oil? I thought that might impart a *zing* to the finish. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:46 pm ] |
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*Zing* over Zoot? Hmm you might have something there Steve
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| Author: | Paul Schulte [ Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:53 pm ] |
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When I first started using F.P. I checked out supermarket walnut oils to see if they would dry. None of these oil would dry and after investigation found that they had either been "refined", which meant the chemical nature of the oils had ben changed, or had anti-oxidents added which prevented drying. The labels can be very misleading. I finally ordered some from an artist supply house where artists use it to mix oil paints and this stuff does dry. You can test it by sreading a thin layer on glass and waiting several days, it does not "dry" quickly. I don't know if it makes the finish harder using walnut oil but it does work well. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:52 am ] |
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Olive oil is the weapon of choice for me. 
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| Author: | Shawn [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:03 am ] |
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caveat: I do not spray anything...the only finishes I have used are french polish or brush on varnish as I build almost exclusively classical so my finishing is all old school. I learned french polishing the traditional way using olive oil. Having said that, I agree with Paul...I tried all of the "edible" oils but also found they do not dry. My wife is a professional artist who paints at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC so I went the art supply route and am very pleased. If the use of oil is to lubricate while applying the french polish then I want it to lubricate but then after that to dry so as not to dampen. If you are going to stick with an edible oil, I still think that olive oil is the best bet as walnut and other oils can and will go rancid after a while whereas olive oil will not. While their are references to oils such as Walnut oil being used for french polishing, I am sure that they were using fresh batches of those oils. I am sure that they are all fine but when it comes to long term storage of oils, olive oil is better. All of that being said, I do enjoy walnut oil on a mixed green salad and bruscheta I do like the olive oil with basil in it brushed on the bread before grilling. :) I almost didnt get past the original post without getting hungry. 
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:33 am ] |
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Here's the thing with walnut oil, as I understand it: It's not for lubrication. Walnut is a drying oil, like tung or linseed, but it offers greater water resistance and it doesn't yellow over time. It's mixed in the bottle WITH the shellac, but it doesn't actually combine with the alcohol, so an occasional shake or stir is in order during the FP process. The shellac and walnut oil dry as separate, though intermixed, finishes on a surface, and result in added durability. Olive (or another) oil is still used by most folks as a lubricant during the FP. |
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| Author: | Paul Schulte [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:16 am ] |
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Walnut oil, olive oil both work equally well however neither oil is soluble in alcohol so mixing them together with the F.P. seems a bit of a waste of time. Add a few drops of either oil to F.P. and you will quickly see what I mean, it looks like the popular salad dressing of oil,water, and vinegar. The oil beads up and floats to the top. I add a drop or so of oil directly to the fad and use as little as possible at that. The purpose of both oils is to lubricate the fad to keep it from sticking during the F.P. process. The reason I use walnut oil is simply that pure walnut oil dries wheras olive oil does not and walnut oil MIGHT produce a harder and more durable finish by co-polymerizing with the shellac. I have not personally proven this to be true by testing but it does make a kind of sense. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:20 pm ] |
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Again, thanks guys. Are you saying that the walnut oil at Kroger's would be inferior to that obtained through an art supply house? Or, put another way, you eat one and paint with the other? The label said that the walnut oil was from "roasted walnuts". No doubt that will improve the flavor, but perhaps not the finishing qualities. This is all very interesting, and like Shawn, I'm getting hungry again. Steve |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:43 pm ] |
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Steve, The problem is that the grocery store walnut oil may not be 100% walnut oil. Both Lee Valley and Woodcraft sell walnut oil that they claim is 100% pure, and I'd tend to believe them. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:34 pm ] |
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there are brands of walnut oil sold in super markets and health food stores which are pure. hain(sp) is one. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:23 am ] |
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Extra virgin Olive oil is my choice as well bu mainly because Walnut is hard to find around here. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:26 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Paul Schulte] Walnut oil, olive oil both work equally well however neither oil is soluble in alcohol so mixing them together with the F.P. seems a bit of a waste of time. Add a few drops of either oil to F.P. and you will quickly see what I mean, it looks like the popular salad dressing of oil,water, and vinegar. The oil beads up and floats to the top. I add a drop or so of oil directly to the fad and use as little as possible at that. The purpose of both oils is to lubricate the fad to keep it from sticking during the F.P. process. The reason I use walnut oil is simply that pure walnut oil dries wheras olive oil does not and walnut oil MIGHT produce a harder and more durable finish by co-polymerizing with the shellac. I have not personally proven this to be true by testing but it does make a kind of sense. [/QUOTE] The point is to not desolve in acolhol so that it will rise to the surface and be sprited away Oil in FP is only an aid in friction resistance. No Oil is left in the film |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:03 pm ] |
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Ah, but Michael, the beauty of the walnut oil, mixed with the shellac, is that it DOESN'T rise to the top like the olive oil. It dries and becomes part of the finish, adding its natural water resistance. It's not generally, at least in the writing I've seen, used as a lubricant. In fact, I've found it to be kind of gummy when added to the outside of the pad. Still use olive oil for lubrication. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:38 am ] |
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Just a personal opinion but a shellac film is pretty darn water resisstant on it's own, and I have a silly issue about the film being pure shellac. Left overs from my Grandfathers teachings. I have use walnut oil in FP process once by adding a drop or two to the pad as need for lub. I still got the same oil film that spitsed away as I do with Olive oil Are you desolving your walnut oil into your cut shellac or applying directly to the pad surface. Not doubting your coments, just try to but the puzzle togather in my mind. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:17 am ] |
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michael, i tend to agree with you. i just put a dab on the fad. i always end up with oil on the surface which needs to be spirited off whether i use olive oil, as i did at one time, or walnut oil, my current lubricant. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:54 am ] |
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I could be wrong but I have never known an oil that dissolved or evaporate that quickly. Most oils leave residue behind when they evaporate. It seems to me that if walnut oil is dissolved in your slurry (if it is truly dissolved) you would then have an impure if mot contaminated film with adhesion issues. I could be wrong here. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:08 am ] |
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Crazyman, where do you get your walnut oil? You mentioned "Hain" earlier... Health food store? Art supply house? I'm with MichaelP in having difficulties finding some of these esoteric products. Thanks again guys. I'm learning lots. Oh, and say--does anyone know what the Brune's use? Steve |
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| Author: | rlabbe [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:57 am ] |
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Brune's use olive oil only. |
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| Author: | Paul Schulte [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:29 am ] |
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Steve, here is a link where I get mine: http://www.rexart.com/maioilmediums.html Needless to say there are as many ways to F.P. as there are F.P.ers. There still seems to be some mis-understanding about both walnut and olive oils. Neither is soluble in alcohol and will not mix. Olive oil will never dry, pure walnut will (albiet slowly). If you spread a thin layer on glass and wait a few days it becomes tacky and you will know its pure walnut oil. If you are going to the trouble of using walnut oil you might as well make sure you have the good stuff. Both oils can be used interchangeably with whatever method works for you  .
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:00 pm ] |
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Thanks, Paul. I should add--no method works for me. 
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:02 am ] |
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Paul, that is point on. Thanks for the link |
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