I doesn't matter to me. If you use unslotted pins, you'll have to slot the bridge. I ramp my bridges either way. The last guitar I finished for "Simplyhere" had unslotted bone pins with ab dots. I really liked them.
| Official Luthiers Forum! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Slotted or Unslotted Bridge Pins? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3432 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | csullivan [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'm about to finish the ebony bridge on a jumbo. I'm leaning toward using bone bridge pins for visual contrast and good sound transmission. Only unslotted pins seem to be available. Any preferences out there for slotted versus unslotted and why? Craig |
|
| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 2:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
don't know where you've been looking but slotted bone pins are available from many vendors. slotted pins are necessary when the pin holes are not slotted, though you can use slotted pins in slotted holes. |
|
| Author: | csullivan [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Michael. I guess my real question is do you or anyone have a preference for slotted or unslotted holes and why. Craig |
|
| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I doesn't matter to me. If you use unslotted pins, you'll have to slot the bridge. I ramp my bridges either way. The last guitar I finished for "Simplyhere" had unslotted bone pins with ab dots. I really liked them. |
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I prefer a Slotted Bridge and unslotted pins, with a nice fit. Seems the bridge pins wear out prematurely with they are slotted. Also, your able to better relieve the (bend) in the string as it leaves the hole in the bridge by ramping the slot. Just seems to make sense to me. YMMV 
|
|
| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I agree with Lance, and the best argument for using them is that the unslotted pins will make sure the ball ends of the strings will be anchored firmly under the bridge plate, which I believe is important for transmission of vibration (sound). Another thing is that there will be less wear on the edge of the bridgeplate (hole) with unslotted pins because the unslotted pins move the string ball away from the hole. And we have all struggeled with a string ball wedged between the slotted pin and hole, it will really chew up both, it's not pretty. |
|
| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Interesting thoughts Arnt... |
|
| Author: | csullivan [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks. I think that's the way I was leaning but I didn't know if there was something out there I wasn't considering. Don, as always, that's very clean work and I love that silky top! Craig |
|
| Author: | Bill Greene [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=csullivan] Don, as always, that's very clean work and I love that silky top! Craig[/QUOTE] Me, too. 
|
|
| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 5:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bill - im still waiting to HEAR your guitar!! When can we sample the sounds
|
|
| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Craig, I think it was Mario or Mark Swanson who said that a properly fit ball end should be able to remain in place with no pin at all. Actually I seem to remember a picture some one posted on the MIMF with a guitar tuned to pitch and no pins in the holes at all. The slot in the bridge is critical to this of course and as Arnt stated, the transmission of the string vibration directly onto the bridge plate (ie: well seated) is key to having the guitar sound nearest its fullest possible potential. Does that make sense. Read through this I think it may be enlightening. |
|
| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Opps, sorry, didn't know that the link was just to the MIMF main page, I thought it would take you to the archives. There is a statment on the bottom of the archive page stating that I can't reprint the article, but if your registered over there, than search for slotted bridge pins, than it should be the second post, titled "Tonal effects of bridge pin materials: Slotted vs. unslotted bridge pins" Maybe Mario could enlighten us over here to the advantages of unslotted pins with slotted bridge holes. |
|
| Author: | csullivan [ Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks all, from all you've said and all that you've lead me to read, it just makes sense to go with the unslotted pins. And I like bone over wood. Craig |
|
| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 2:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The fit of my string slots in my bridge is so that the ball three quarters clears the pin hole. Therfore it will hold with out a pin when under tension, but when a slotted bridge pin is inserted it wedges the ball a bit firmer under. I do this this way so that when tension is removed from the string the pin will release easly enough never to nead a puller, but under tension the ball locks the pin in place. I also make sure the double wound area of the string is not restricted anywhere in the bridge string slot. I want three contact points only, the string to saddle, ball to bridge plate and ball to pin. I guess really four, the fourth being bridge pin to bridge., but I think that is self implied. Any other contact with the bridge would render a loss of energy at the ball. Which in my thinking is not that big of an issue since the real energy that is transmitted to the Bridge plate and thus the top comes from the saddle. However I want all the energy I can get. So I do my best not to restrict it. kinda off suject but the thought passed mind |
|
| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
There is one more contact point Michael. The point on the bridge where the string comes out of the hole or the break angle point. See new topic regarding pin less vs. pinned bridge design. |
|
| Author: | Scott Thompson [ Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Bryan Kinsey has a good page on his site on this subject with good pictures to prove the point. http://www.bryankimsey.com/bridges/slotted.htm Great site, by the way, if you have never been there. |
|
| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've always slotted my pins since they are the intended wear component in the whole bridge system. Bridge pins are much easier and obviously less expensive to replace than a bridge or bridge plate so I slot them and do minimal slotting in the bridge pin holes through the bridge and bridge plate. I'm not a proponent of what has become the accepted norm of keyhole shaped holes leading through the bridge and plate for the strings. It is perfectly reasonable to be able to create a strong interface between the bridge and strings with slotted pins instead of holes. As long as the string ball interfaces correctly with the inside of the plate it can be seated securely and offer a solid integrity of the whole system of components. Integration is the key factor when we're looking at the interface of pins, strings and bridges. The more solid and consistent the contact and greater the contact surface between them, the better and more efficient the vibration transfer and communication betweeen them will be. So simply stated, the srings should be securely pinched between the pins and the bore of the holes along the length of their respective tapers. It's of paramount importance that the taper of the pins used and the holes that they are seatedin are very closely matched for the most efficient operation of them as a system with the bridge. If you slot pins or bridge, you need to be sure that the slots don't allow the strings to simply ride into the bridge without contact with the pins as they are there to hold the strings and their ball ends in place. The function of the pins is more than to simply hold the strings in place, but to also provide as much contact between them and the bridge as possible. I've heard the statement that the strings should stay in place even if the pins are removed and wholeheartedly disagree that this is a requirement for proper set up and interface. If your strings pop out when you remove the pins, it certainly doesn't mean that your guitar is improperly or incorrectly set up. It does indicate, on the other hand, that the pins are providing more than just retention and are playing an active role in the integration of the strings and the bridge as a unit. Ramps to allow a smoother approach from the pin holes to the saddle are a great idea and don't hurt anything, but they should never be cut too deep as to remove more material from the critical bridge thickness and height to compromise its integrity. Material gone means reduced strength...it's just common sense and is a fact. I cut my ramps in a radial shape to simply allow the strings to smoothly bend around an easy curve as they enter the pin holes, basically just rounding the edge of the front of the holes toward the saddle with a slot slighly wider than each string's diameter. Finally, I do prefer bone or ivory pins to wood or plastic for obvious reasons in both cases. The plastic pins simply wear far to quicly and bend at the end inside the guitar failing to seat the ball ends correctly. The wood pins fail in completely different areas. They are softer than or equally as soft as the bridge material and an obbious thing happens with time because of it. As they are insterted and removed repaeated over the years of the guitar's life for string changes and regular maintenance, they begin to lose their proper taper and take on an hour glass type of shape as they sort of "squash" under pressure and the same happens to the taper of the bores of the pins holes in the bridge. This distortion of the taper allows for a sloppy fit or rocking to occur and reduces the contact area and subsequent efficiency of their contribution to the operation of the bridge and connected components as a system. Also the soft ends of the wood pins wear relatively quickly and chip or break reducing their ability to seat the ball ends of the strings as well. The bone and ivory pins are considerably harder than the woods used for bridges and can actually contribute to the preservation of the original taper of the bridge pin holes as they hold their own taper well. Along with the contribution that this makes to the longevity of the guitar's service life before required attention or maintenance to this area, the additional hardness and density creates a more efficient vibration transfer environment. Just my thoughts and opinions, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
|
| Author: | Keith M [ Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Kevin your logic seems sound to me and I will keep this post on hand when I do my bridge work. |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|