I bought mine at woodcraft. I can't remember exactly what they call it but it's something like "end grain seaaler". They use that name just to be tricky.
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| Author: | BlueSpirit [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:42 pm ] |
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Does anyone know of a good wax sealer for green wood? Or maybe a link where I can find about sealing wood? Thanks Ladies and Gents |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:59 pm ] |
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I bought mine at woodcraft. I can't remember exactly what they call it but it's something like "end grain seaaler". They use that name just to be tricky.
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| Author: | Bobc [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:25 pm ] |
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I buy mine at Rockler. Called green wood sealer. Probably the same stuff as Woodcraft. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:15 pm ] |
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Parafine wax also makes a good sealer . |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:08 pm ] |
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Here's the real trick... the product is called Anchorseal, and you can get them to send you a free sample...a quart, which will last you forever if you're only talking your guitar wood stash. |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:53 am ] |
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Some of the end grain sealer on the market is sucked very deeply into the end grain, which may seal just fine but at a cost of several inches of wood made useless by the sealer. That's not a big deal on 8 to 12 foot long boards (which is what I think it was designed for), but can be a real problem if you seal the ends of pieces of wood already cut to 32" long, intended for guitar sides. If the wood is resinous, the end sealers will not go in so deeply, but can go in very deeply on some non-resinous woods. Some of the end grain sealers never dry. Again, that could be good for big boards, because it can migrate and provide a tiny bit more coverage when the boards end check and when the late wood and early wood shrink over time at different rates. But, it can also be transferred from the boards to other boards, work surfaces, saw tables, etc. and become a mess. And, it becomes more liquid as the the temperature rises. I think if the wood is already cut close to its useful length, you may be happier painting the ends with latex paint. $0.02 from someone who used to have a tiny exotic lumber business. Dennis |
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| Author: | spruce [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:09 am ] |
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"Parafine wax also makes a good sealer . " Mix the wax with paint thinner (mineral spirits) so that it will shrink and expand with the wood as it dries.... This way the wax won't flake off in a few months, as it will if you just apply the wax by itself.... 80% wax, 20% thinner works well, heated on a Coleman stove outdoors.... |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:31 am ] |
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Dennis is correct reguaring the Anchorseal, I ordered a test quart of it and did a bunch of tops, and sure enough it has wicked into the endgrain. Its more visable in a cedar top than spruce. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:04 am ] |
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>80% wax, 20% thinner works well, heated on a Coleman stove outdoors.... This is a recipe for a fire (I guess that's why it's outdoors, but bursts of flame outdoors are dangerous too). Paraffin should only be melted in a double boiler. But why bother when Anchorseal is so much easier to use and adheres better, especially to green wood. As for latex, testing by the Forest Products Lab showed that it does next to nothing to block water vapor transfer. Shellac is a lot better. If your tops are dry, as almost all tops are when sold, there is no reason I can see to use sealer. I've never seen end check develop on a dry top. |
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| Author: | spruce [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:50 am ] |
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"This is a recipe for a fire (I guess that's why it's outdoors, but bursts of flame outdoors are dangerous too). Paraffin should only be melted in a double boiler." In 25 years, I've never had a problem... No double boiler, etc.... But that doesn't mean it can't happen... My feeling is that the addition of paint thinner into the equation actually makes the whole operation safer, as you don't need to heat the mixture anywhere near as hot as you would if you were just working with wax by itself... But yeah... Take care when playing with fire.... |
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| Author: | Dennis Leahy [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:45 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] As for latex, testing by the Forest Products Lab showed that it does next to nothing to block water vapor transfer. Shellac is a lot better. [/QUOTE] Thanks, Howard. I'm glad to know that. I wonder now if the FPL findings were associated with drying green wood, or in protecting "dry" wood. My experience came from protecting kiln dried tropical lumber from rapidly absorbing or losing water, and the latex did seem to work. I suspect it's a whole different ballgame from green to dry, because then the wood really changes dimension a lot, and the paint could easily separate from the wood. Even in drying green lumber,I wonder if oil-based paint would work where latex failed, without the cost of shellac or the wicking of some of the other end sealers. Dennis |
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| Author: | Jason [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:50 am ] |
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www.leevalley.com/ Lee Valley End Sealer for Logs We've been using it for years with good results. I noticed they wont ship it to the US though.. It's probably flammable or something. You could drive up ;) |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:23 am ] |
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Like Jason, I use the Lee Valley product. I haven't trimmed a set to see how far it wicks but all of the wood I send to Roger Siminoff is treated with this product and he has reported no issues. It is a water based wax emulsion. I am thinking that it is Anchorseal, but not having seen that product I don't know for sure but anchorseal wasn't readily availbale to me when I was looking. It goes on white and dries yellow. I only wax archtop mando and guitar sets. As Howard says, the thin sets require no end sealing, in my experience! Shane |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:12 am ] |
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Hmmm. I've used latex paint for years, on all sorts of green wood, and never had any problem with end checks. It's got to be slowing the transfer of moisture down to some extent, which is all it really has to do. You're not trying to make the end grain vapor tight, but just to get the transfer rate even between the end grain and side grain so that the ends of the piece don't shrink faster than the middle. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:21 am ] |
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Has anyone used pruning spray for this? I use it on my trees when I have to trim back the branches. Seems like it might work pretty well on tonewood, too -- as long as it doesn't penetrate too far. It's pitch black, after all. Best, Michael |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:35 am ] |
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I've used Anchor seal for a couple of years now. In fact the plant is here in Buffalo. Never had a problem with wicking. 1/8" at most. The stuff is too thick to wick in. The stuff from Rockler is about 1/2 the cost and appears to be the same as Anchor Seal. Dries clear and waxy. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:12 pm ] |
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Al, I have used paint also, I have lots of part gallons around from various renos. I just found that this product from lee valley is consitant, very easy to clean up after and even realatively inexpensive as it goes a long. And like most emulsions, it does'nt even need mixing, although I do mix, you can just open the can and apply. Soap and water, nothing more than a good rinse and everything is cleaned up. I use a small roller and the process goes well. At times I am doing 20 to 30 pieces, that is 40 to 60 ends. Shane |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:50 pm ] |
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Try this link re the FPL data, and notice the comments about latex in the text. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/feist87a.pdf - 13.6k - Sep 21, 2005 |
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| Author: | BlueSpirit [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:00 pm ] |
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Thank you all for your valuable input. Looks like I get to research a little more. Great leads, thanks! |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:33 pm ] |
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Here's a question for you guys: has anyone tried heating the paraffin while it's on the board? I tried this once just to save time and have been doing it since-- rub the cake on the end grain, then pass the flame of a propane torch lightly over the wax until it melts and is wicked further into the wood. There are no worries then about the stuff flaking off in time, and no mixing on the stove, etc. I, like others, would not do this to a top that's dry, but only on lumber that I'm trying to preserve. |
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