Although you don't really need the epoxy to fill the wood, all reports indicate epoxy does a really nice job of "popping" the figure.. I have no epoxy experience myself.. Just relaying what my customers have told me
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| Author: | Cogges [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:17 am ] |
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Everything I've seen/read about maple tells me that no pore filler is needed before finishing. I'm building a quilted maple 000 and want to get it right. I've been using System 3 epoxy to fill and KTM-9 to finish and would like to stay with it (the KTM-9). Should I use the Sys. 3 to fill or just skip that step and go straight to the KTM-9? Suggestions? |
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| Author: | Jason [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:22 am ] |
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Although you don't really need the epoxy to fill the wood, all reports indicate epoxy does a really nice job of "popping" the figure.. I have no epoxy experience myself.. Just relaying what my customers have told me
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:23 am ] |
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Hmmm.... it's true there is no pore filler needed with maple. BUT...you need something to pop the grain, or "wet" the grain as some say. Epoxy can do that. Some folks have used shellac under ktm9 with success, others have had less success. For what it's worth, I used shellac under the KTM-9 on my resonator project, and haven't seen any signs of adhesion problems. Part of the reason is that I was careful to spray 2-3 coats of shellac on it, and then I sanded it well before spraying the ktm-9. It seems to have worked to create a mechanical bond. I can't say for sure yet, since I haven't buffed it out yet, but so far so good. If I can get this to work, I'll stay away from epoxy. I hate using the stuff. Also, Grafted Coatings makes a sealer product called KTM-Seal & Sand, which might help in that regard, but I'm not certain since I haven't used it yet. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:30 pm ] |
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Hi Cogges, I typically use Danish Oil, applied sparingly, to pop the curl. This is followed by a shellac-like product called Qualasole, made by Behlen. And that is followed by the sealer, etc. Of course, this is in a solvent based system. But I do believe that Qualasole would work with anything. Best bet is to try your several steps on a piece of scrap. That will tell you if everything is working together, and if it is accomplishing the ends you want. Steve |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:11 pm ] |
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I use figured maple for building Archtops and have used ultra blonde shellac under Target PSL on figured maple with success. The beauty of maple is there is no need to pore fill. The thing you may want to consider is that water based finishes are ultra clear so that you don't get the nice amber hue or figure popping you get from traditional nitro. Personally I like shellac to pop the figure especially if you have used highly figured quilted maple. Here are some other options for your consideration: 1) Target Coatings sells a water based shellac if you are concerned about using a solvent based shellac. 2) Add the amber that StewMac sells to the KTM-9 after you've brushed/shot a few coats of clear KTM-9. (this won't address popping the figure) 3) Water Soluble Aniline Dyes, or Water Soluble Metal Acid Dyes that LMI sells. (after laying down clear coats) Go to this link and you'll find a good tutorial on waterbased finishes http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/KTM.htm 4) Contact LMI or probably better yet send Mike Doolin an email I'll bet you get a pretty quick response. Whatever you decide all the best to you. |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:45 pm ] |
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You are right -- you don't need anything to fill the pours of maple and as always, Don is right on target by suggesting you will want to "warm up" the color of the maple because the KTM9 is so clear. On this archtop I started right from the first coat with KTM9 that was tinted with amber colorant -- not too much. With each successive coat it got a little warmer until I had the color I wanted. The remaining coats were clear. What I like about this process is that nothing is clouding up or muddying up the figure in the maple, even though it's hard to see in this pic. I also like it because it's not complicated. Craig 
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:54 pm ] |
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Craig, I'm always in awe of people that can bind f-holes like that! 
Colin |
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| Author: | old man [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:24 am ] |
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That is some very pretty work. Ron |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:29 am ] |
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Nicely constructed "archie" Craig. Even with the amber...it still looks pretty blonde! Also by just spraying tinted water based lacquer do you find that the figure has been "popped"? |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:35 am ] |
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I've had the good fortune of playing that archtop...and it's sensational. Anthony, waterbornes can not by nature pop the grain the way shellac or lacquer etc can. They sit on top, and don't reeally penetrate to give that "wet" look that pops the grain. They need a little help. |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:45 am ] |
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Don, you're right, the grain does need a little help to pop it. By using the KTM alone I agree, it doesn't pop as much as it could. As you know, I just sprayed my current effort this past weekend. I had used epoxy on this one. The neck is flamed maple and my feeling is it makes the grain just a little too contrasty. Have you found that and if so, how do you control it? Anthony, the side area you see has a fairly strong light hitting it, so it looks a little lighter than it really is. But you could continue to spray tinted coats until it was as dark as you wanted. And thanks all for the complements. It's always with trepidation that I would post a pic because all you folks have the bar kicked up so high. Craig |
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| Author: | Anthony Z [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:33 am ] |
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Don I realize KTM-9 won’t pop the grain – I shouldn’t post rhetorical questions. Craig from the appearance of your posted picture -- I think you should feel confident in posting without trepidation. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:01 pm ] |
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Wow that arch top is nice and the Fhole work is impecable. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:44 am ] |
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Here's a trick to really popping grain on curly maple. First, take a dye that is not too dramatic. A honey or amber color work well, or a really thinned tobacco brown. Work it VERY LIGHTLY into the wood. The portions of the curl in which the grain is angled more like end grain will absorb more of the dye than the portions of the curl in which the grain is angled more like flat grain. This will create the effect of shadows and highlights on the curl, which really emphasize the three-dimensional appearance of the grain. Next, lightly sand everything. You should be able to almost eliminate the dye from the flat-grain-like portions while still seeing a dyed effect in certain portions of the curl. Then finish as usual. Try on test pieces. The trick is to find a dye that has a tone similar to the the natural wood, but a bit darker. Good luck. |
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| Author: | Cogges [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:10 am ] |
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Thanks to all for the replies. Several good ideas; luckily I have some left-overs to test on. Craig- your work looks fantastic! Just when I thought I was getting good someone like you comes along! Beautiful! |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:58 am ] |
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Craig, I would like to feel bad that you have great contrast on the flamed maple, I really wood. But I think it's great! Control it? May it never be! Let it be wild! That's nature at it's best. 
Man, I absolutely love the white binding on that archtop. It reminds me of one Mark Campellone showed me at his place...but his was quilted maple. |
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