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Filing Frets -- a quicker way?
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3616		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:07 am ]
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I've taken a rather traditional approach to filing frets so far. Problem is I hate it. It is laborious and time consuming and I can't help but think there's gotta be a better way. Hence the subject question.

I use the tools shown here:



All three of the fret files were bought from LMI. The small one is the triangular one with the edges ground smooth.

They work well enough, but man are they slow. So, I'm very curious how others do this. Are there any short cuts or ways to automate this process that actually work?

Best,

Michael
Author:  LanceK [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:19 am ]
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Michael - in the Jigs Tools and Tech's section of the OLF, Tim McKnight has a fretting lesson, its really helped me alot!
Check it out HERE
Author:  John How [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:37 am ]
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Best way is to make sure everything is flat and completely seated to minimize any needed filing.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:04 am ]
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I use a carpenters level with sandpaper glued to the edge as a sanding plane to level the frets. Then I sand the frets by hand with 320 grit and then hit them with a buffing wheel charged with gray compound to bring up the gloss. Takes about 1 hour per neck.
Author:  RussellR [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:09 am ]
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Hi Michael

I Agree with Lance on Tims Article it is my Fretting Referance these days, I like to get everything as level as poss before I start, I have one of those 16" Steel Beams from Stewmac, (I'm sure you could probably find it somewhere else cheaper) One side I have set up for leveling the fretboard, the other for doing any final leveling of the frets.

Hope this Helps
Author:  Don Williams [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:18 am ]
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Hey Michael, if that's the 3M blue painter's tape, get it off that finish before it eats into it! Seriously...it's terrible stuff on both nitro and ktm-9.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:20 am ]
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I don't know about getting the beam cheaper. We have a major machine shop in our plant. I had one of the machinest grind and polish me a 12" x 3" x 3" piece of T6 to .001 flat per foot. It was not an easy task. 3hrs work due to the light cut per pass required and setup time, at an overhead rate of $45/hr (typical of most manufacturing machining rates) that is $135 not counting material. of cource they get volume break on both material and labor and the company doing it is set-up for large runs but still.
Author:  jfrench [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:41 am ]
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I think there is too much protection. I'd lose the tape and forget about it. Stewmac sells "fingerboard guards" and they work good while sanding. Just vacuum off any metal dust from filing.

Also, the better the fingerboard prep the better the fretjob. You can use wetstones or an arkansas stone instead of files for the levelling.

Using a jigged file like stewmac sells to angle the fret to the fingerboard edge saves time as well.

Author:  stan thomison [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:56 am ]
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Use one of the bars from stew mac with self adhesive abrasive. Works great. just a time job that needs to be right. I just make sure everything seat and flat. finding most things go easier and faster with good prep work
Author:  L. Presnall [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:35 am ]
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Blue 3M is bad for finish? YIKES! I've been using it just like in the photo, and even letting it wrap around to the back of the neck...it's bad for nitro finish...geez, I hope I get smart before something bad happens...is there a safe tape for finish?
Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:22 am ]
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If you really want to haul arse on the crowning step, attach your fret file to
one of these little babies and let 'er rip!
http://www.nittokohki.com/en/displaycontent.asp?ID=69
Rick Turner uses this method, but be forewarned, it's not for faint of hand or
heart.
-C
Author:  Brock Poling [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:56 am ]
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[QUOTE=stan thomison] Use one of the bars from stew mac with self adhesive abrasive. Works great. just a time job that needs to be right. I just make sure everything seat and flat. finding most things go easier and faster with good prep work[/QUOTE]

Just check it with your straight edge first. For some reason I thought all 4 sides were ground perfectly flat. Nope. On mine just the small edges are flat.
Author:  stan thomison [ Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:12 pm ]
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yea I use the small side on the I think 24" and short strokes
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:49 am ]
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Get some old cabinet scrapers and sand all the edges smooth then you can tape them onto the top as protectors and you will never scratch or ding the top again. As far as quick and easy fretting goes...Sylvan Wells has a system that requires almost no leveling and is absolutely gorgeous when done ( in less than an hour!). He calls it the semi-hemispherical fretting system. I call it the Well's System. He offered a seminar to OLF members not too long ago, at his shop, on Jigs and his System. Maybe if enough people show an interest he will again.
Author:  Brock Poling [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:47 am ]
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Depending on the particulars I would be interested. That is something I am interested in.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:39 am ]
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Thanks for all the feedback, guys. It's been helpful. Just thought I'd add a bit, though.

I think I do a pretty decent job of leveling the fingerboard before installing the frets. Classicals require some relief for the basses because they move in a pretty wide arc. So I plane this relief into the bass side of the fingerboard, tapering the relief from the 12th fret toward the nut. I smooth out any regularities with this:



It is a 1.5" x 2.5" x 10" billet of aluminum with one of the 1.5" faces machined dead flat, to which I have attached a piece of 80 grit sandpaper with spray-on adhesive. It does a good job of leveling the fingerboard and removing irregularities.

After that I hammer in the frets. It appears that it is this step that causes some unevenness in the way the frets are seated. Even if I bang the bejabbers out of them, I still wind up with some unevenness across each fret -- not a lot, but enough to show before they get recrowned.

It has been my experience so far that, if I have worked the fingerboard quite a bit with the above sanding block, the amount of leveling I have to do is minimal. It's the recrowning that I find slow.

To be honest, recrowning is not so bad with 6-strings, but it can be a real chore with 10-strings. The above guitar took less than an hour to recrown and dress with 600 grit and then steel wool. Seems like it takes at least twice that long with 10-strings, though.

As far as the tape goes, I french polish my guitars, and I have never had a problem with the tape affecting the finish. Yes, I have been thinking that I really need to make some templates or something that I can just lay atop the soundboard and tape in place instead of using all that tape. Not only will it be faster but with tape, even when I do slip, I may not tear out a hunk of the top, but I'll still put a dent in it, which I'll then have to steam out.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:32 am ]
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I found that my frets were much more even when I switched to pressing them in. It really makes a world of difference. Leveling them goes much quicker and since you remove less material, crowning and polishing also goes quicker.
Author:  Dave Rector [ Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:36 am ]
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Michael, when I cover the top for fretting I use some material my wife pointed me to that is available at WalMart. The stuff is found in the kitchen section and is a thin tough plastic that is used for chopping on with your kitchen knives. They come 2 to a pack and all you have to do is notch them out to fit around the end of the fingerboard. They are very tough and I haven't made a mark with a file or sandpapewr isnce I started using them. They're also very inexpensive.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:46 am ]
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Barry, did you buy a fret press system, or did you put together your own?

I've been thinking about buying an arbor press and cobbling up some pressing cauls. Still, though, it seems like I'll have to bang 'em in over the 12th fret, being these are classicals and all.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Daniel M [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:49 am ]
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Hey Michael;
If your frets aren't hammering in evenly, I would suspect the slots are too narrow.
I use the Stew-Mac circular fret slotting saw & have to widen the slots by hand to get the kerf right. The frets should go in fairly easily, without forming bends from the hammer blows.
A dead blow hammer helps too.
I make the slots a few thou wider in the fretboard extension & use a bit of glue on the tangs. I find this makes it easier to get a good "seat" without too much hammering.
Having just read Tim McKnights fretting article, I see some all-thread, T-nuts & a sheet of MDF in my future.
I've been re-thinking my levelling / fretting methods lately & Tim's post is right on the money.
Anyone know where I can get more info on the Sylvan Wells method???
Thanks for bringing up the topic Michael... It's just what I needed!
Regards,   Dan'l
Author:  RussellR [ Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:49 am ]
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Hi Daniel

I think Sylvans method is proprietory and he is keeping his method that way at the moment.

I did find some information on Semi Hemispherical in general under this link

Semi Hemispherical Fretting
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:19 am ]
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=stan thomison] Use one of the bars from stew mac with self adhesive abrasive. Works great. just a time job that needs to be right. I just make sure everything seat and flat. finding most things go easier and faster with good prep work[/QUOTE]

Just check it with your straight edge first. For some reason I thought all 4 sides were ground perfectly flat. Nope. On mine just the small edges are flat.[/QUOTE]

just the one edge is ground. I think they say that in there add.
Author:  KiwiCraig [ Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:51 pm ]
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Why don't you go "tangless" Michael ?
   
Regards KiwiCraig
Author:  Heath [ Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:17 am ]
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Hello All,
I'm new to this forum so go easy on me, I'm a bass guitar maker from ole blighty, I use a indian oil stone to level my frets and find its quick enuff and clean as the dust sticks to the stone which I wipe often with spirit, never tried sandpaper but might try it next time, when you got a six string 24 fret bass any thing to save time would be great, I also use the stew mac metal fretboard guards which are great but too small after about the 14 fret so I have to do half a fret at a time ggrr. I'll try and post a picture of my guitar jig which I use to bend the neck into position before planing in the releif.
by the way this site and forum is great, have picked up many a tip from it, keep up the good works.
cheers
Heath    Heath38654.855474537
Author:  npalen [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:56 pm ]
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Heath
With reference to the too short fretboard guards, could you cut the end off of two of them and then CA them back together overlapping the excess metal?
Nelson
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