Official Luthiers Forum!

Anyone have any experience in breaking in a new guitar by placing it in front of speakers and playing music through them?

I'm doing it currently, while the novelty is still um. novel.

Any thoughts? Other than several doses will be necessary? Like all day severla weeks at least I'm thinking. It has an Engleman Spruce topTerry Stowell38679.8936689815

What ever you do... don't play any of that "rap" noise... You will ruin the guitar! ehahehahehah... no one can fix that!

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

^ what Dave said ^

Y'Know what- A local music owner I used to do repairs for said I oughta play some rap - the guitar would do anything to get me to stop

Well if anyone has anything to say (jokes included) feel free.

Maybe I'll keep pumping it in till my family can't stand it anymore, or until I get results

[QUOTE=ToddStock] I think you should look for stuff from that dude in the black hat that teaches guitar 'As Seen on TV'.

That way, the guitar starts with simple, uncomplicated pieces...[/QUOTE]

I started it out today with the Acoustic Guitar Highlights Volume 3 sampler. Tomorrow we teach it a little Phil Keaggy and some other DADGAD stuff. And yes, I will tune it to match, to make sure sympathetic vibration is empathetic.

Sheesh, this is starting to sound entirely pathetic

In 1983 I bought a new Martin “Custom - 15” In case you don’t know
that model, suffice it to say it’s another brother of the HD-28.

David, a local bluegrass picker, bought one just like mine that same year.
In fact, they were VERY similar guitars: grain spacing on face, bridge
height, setup. Most of all, they sounded as nearly identical as any two
guitars I’ve heard.

David built himself a box for his guitar. It was big enough to hold the
instrument, was made of 3/4” ply with foam insulation inside. Also inside
was a speaker, through which he played his stereo LOUD for many
months. During and after this break-in period, David played the guitar in
the classic hard-driving bluegrass style. He formed a band, and drove it
with his Custom 15. This guitar got years of really hard mileage.

I, on the other hand, am a mandolin player, and have been suffering with
the beginnings of arthritis. My Custom 15 has hung on the wall or sat in
the case, and has been played so little it’s embarrassing.

In 1993, around the tenth anniversary of their manufacture, David and I
got the two instruments together for a trial:

I had just installed some new strings on my guitar when he arrived at the
house. He walked in and hit a g-chord on it and said, “Well, so much for
all that breaking-in - your guitar sounds better than mine!” I insisted
that he break out his guitar and restring it, too. After some serious
comparison, we agreed that his had an EXTREMELY slight edge over mine
in the clarity of trebles. it was such a small difference that we agreed it
may well have gone unnoticed ten years earlier.

Now, what do I think I learned from this experience? First, I got a quick
lesson in David’s ability to recognize his own guitar. (No big surprise,
because some days I don't think I could identify the mandolin I’ve played
for 30 years.) Second, I think I’m satisfied that the break-in of a guitar is
a subtle thing I have no business even trying to hear. I’d say it is very
likely that the two guitars aged some by just being instruments, and
probably less from the vibes they experienced. Neither instrument is has
any peculiarity of tone or volume that would compel one to describe it as
better than any new Martin dreadnought. They're both good, but not
outstanding.

Of course, like any other study, the results are easily skewed to suit a
predicted outcome, but this is the most objectivity I've been able to
manage.

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

I don't have an opinion about this, but you should check out this thread on the Mandolin Cafe (hope it's OK to post the link?):

mandolins and vibrators

Some people seem to think mandolins benefit from massaging and squeezing, some even like violent shaking!

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

IMO a big chunk of the improvement in an instrument with age is just from
being under string tension, regardless of whether it is played. I've noticed
the improvement in guitars I've built which sit in in their cases unplayed and
(sigh) unsold.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Lock it in a room with some Earl Scruggs picking. That will open it up.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Here' something that came up from the mandolin cafe link
Rick Turner's findings

Interesting. Thought provoking.

I'm not thinking there's a definitive answer anywhere (luthiery is SO full of mystery, unending variables, parameters, and results) That's part of the "hook" we get in our flesh. If I just build one more...I'll have it

Have a great Thanksgiving all. God bless y'all real good.

[QUOTE=Howard Klepper] IMO a big chunk of the improvement in an instrument with age is just from
being under string tension, regardless of whether it is played. I've noticed
the improvement in guitars I've built which sit in in their cases unplayed and
(sigh) unsold. [/QUOTE]

I think the answer to this probably lies somewhere in the middle. I have a friend that believes strongly in setting a new guitar in front of stereo speakers to aid it in its break-in period. And, like Howard, I have personally witnessed guitars I've built sound better day-by-day with little playing done to them.

Most of the guitars I've built are classicals -- I've built only one steel string acoustic so far. It's about a year and a half old now, and doesn't get played much. But just within the past couple of months or so I've noticed that it has opened up a lot. It sounds much better now -- even without getting played much at all.

On the other hand, it is a well known phenomenon, among classical players, at least, that a guitar will "go to sleep" if it doesn't get played on a semi-regular basis. I have witnessed this as well.

So, as with most things in life, I suspect the answer is neither A nor B, but some sort of complex interplay between the two variables.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

I think Frank Ford ( as usual) makes a real good point. I also think that having the instrument under tension does do something to the instrument thru out it's aging process. But again...so slight that it's probably not realy dicernable. Back to the "rap" bashing...Did I tell you about the customer who brought in a box with a guitar all busted up and in parts? He asked "can you help me?" I asked what type of music he "played"...he responded "rap and hip hop". I responded by picking up several of the pieces and responding..."so what seems to be the problem?" He said "well it's all busted up!" I broke the piece in my hand, threw it in the box, told him "that should fix it" and sent him on his way.

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] What ever you do... don't play any of that "rap" noise... You will ruin the guitar! ehahehahehah... no one can fix that! [/QUOTE]

BAH! A lil Snoop Dogg would give your top that "gangsta flava" all your redneck instruments are missing    

_________________
CVT Inc.
A tour of our shop (Somewhat outdated)
My Personal eBay profile. BCWoodBug

I own three guitars that were built in the 30's all with Adirondack tops that would probably not be rated very highly cosmetically by the good folks here. But their 70 or so years have given them not only the most lustrous glow but a sweet responsive sound, with price tab to match.

At the Royal College of Music here I have also got to play guitars dating back to the early part of the 18th century,and lutes nearly a hundred years older that are the sweetest sounding instruments you'll ever hear, and believe me neither the build quality or some of the wood would be seen on any of the OLFers instruments. Pure age has given these their lustre.

Dave Hume, the luthier at the college has repaired and overhauled many Stradivari and other Cremonese instruments and is a firm believer that, although good instruments in their day, they would be considered nothing special if built today. (Indeed David's own built violins are tonally virtually indistinguishable from Strads). He is of the belief that it is purely time and tension that has given these instruments their tone.

Come back in 200 years and listen to your own guitars you may be pleasantly surprised.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Hi Colin

Do you mean the build quality is good or bad ?

Russell, the build quality of a lot of the early instruments that today sound so good would be considered nothing to write home about if made today, apart from the Cremonese ones. The fit of many parts, braces etc, would not be acceptable on even a mass produced guitar never mind the wonderful creations that you and many on this forum produce. We are lucky in that we have access to tools and materials that the early instrument makers would kill for. Although I sometimes think we have gone too far with the technology and got away from the intimate relationship with the wood. Throw away that router, get the knife, chisel and scraper out of the drawer!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I'm firmly in the camp that believes that 'playing in' is real. I've measured changes over time and with playing in the output of instruments that I've built, and see the same sorts of differences between 'old' and 'new' instruments of a given type. The changes are always of the same nature, and depending on what the instrument had or needed to begin with, might not be all that audible.

I've tried 'artificial' playing in several times. It does about the same things as 'real' playing in, no matter what input you use, so long as it's not all one frequency. However, there are a couple of things to think about.

For one thing, driving a guitar with speakers is terribly inefficient. Most of the sound energy just bounces off, and you have to run at very high sound levels to get anywhere in a reasonable length of time. It's far more effective to use a 'stinger'.

Get something like a woofer or mid-range speaker with decent power handling capabilities. Cut out most of the cone, leaving only three or four strips along the radii to support the coil. Glue a wine cork or a balsa post 'stinger' to the coil cover, but first whittle it down to a point about 1/8" across. Make sure the 'stinger' point sticks out past the frame of the speaker. Add a cord so that you can plug it into a source of sound.

Hang the guitar up someplace convenient. Mount the 'stinger' on something like a tripod that will allow you to adjust the height so that the point of the cone can be firmly in contact with the bridge saddle. You'll know you've got it right when it doesn't buzz at the highest power input you will want to use. What you've done, of course, is to convert your guitar into a speaker. You might be surprised at how loud it will be, even at low power levels.

My trials in this have been flawed by the fact that I was only using the headphone outlet on my boom box. The power was quite limited, and it took a long time to get any results. One of my students tried this with the addition of a small, 2W amp that he got from RadShack. This seems to have gotten him over the threshold, as he noted a real difference in only a weekend of use.

I have noted an interesting thing: guitars are actually very 'lo-fi' speakers. If you use a radio staion as your driver the people's voices will all sound like 'duckspeak' at first. There will be slow measureable changes in the output of the guitar with only a day or two of playing in, even at low power, but the _audible_ change seems to be sigaled by the fact that voices become much more intelligable. This can be rather sudden. I have no idea why this is so.....

This has been something that I've been interested in for a long time now. I finally took a day off from the regular duties and made it happen. The design I came up with was 50% mine and 75% John Watkins' (Wait, that doesn't add up. Oh well, neither does much of anything else I work on).
the design has a probe connected to the voice coil. Probe in this case is 1/4" dowel which is connected to a cork. Cork in this case is actually a wine cork. I thought I'd introduce a bit of culture into the mix. The device is clamped to the neck at the nut with a hindge just below to allow the whole thing to pivot. The adjustment is at the other end of the neck via locking screws. I wanted the probe to make contact with the saddle but not too much weight so this allows me to back it off a bit if I need to.
I'll keep you posted on the extremely scientific results (aka my ears).

Beautiful guitar, Paul. I really like that spalted binding. Is the fretboard free-floating?   Adjustable?

Sorry for the hijack

I'll be interested in reading your findings from this experiment.

Hey Paul, I'm comin over tomorrow.

Wait, you live too far away. Nevermind

My setup is completely different. What MY goal is to make it sound like something it's not constructed to sound like. Breaking it in may not cover it.

It's kinda dark sounding, ok for fingerstyle. All I had was Corian for nut and saddle. Gonna switch to bone, and take of those D'Addario Alchemy lights and put on something brighter, and load the top a bit more. If that gives no hope, I'm selling her off pot haste. No time to experiment. Bills need to get paid yesterday.

I'll give you a holler Paul. Thanks for the post.

Thanks too Al, I like your scientific approach to luthiery too. This stuff will inspire many to come. Or is befuddle the right word

[QUOTE=BruceH] Beautiful guitar, Paul. I really like that spalted binding. [/QUOTE]

Ditto, where'dya get that? I got a bunch of spalted maple for headstock, end wedges, heel caps, etc.