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Scroll saw and/or jewelers saw for inlays
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Author:  Skip Beach [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:50 am ]
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Hi everyone,

I have unlimited access to a pretty nice (approx. $600 range) Delta scroll saw in the scenic woodworking shop at my job. I've always used a jeweler's saw for the fairly simple pearl & wood inlays that have graced my instruments so far. I was wondering if any of you highly experienced and talented inlay artists have used a powered scroll saw for your work? It seems that it would be helpful in cutting sandwiches of inlay materials.

In testing this particular saw on an 1/8" piece of mahogany, it seemed that the blade wandered pretty easily making accuracy of cut fairly difficult to achieve. I tried low speeds & high speeds, slow material feeding & slower material feeding - but in all instances it was nearly impossible to consistently split a squiggly pencil line without wandering. The slow speed & slowest feed rate helped (duh, that figures) but still wasn't too great.

The blade seemed quite well tensioned so maybe adjusting the v-shaped metal blade guide would help as it was not very close to the rear of the blade.

Please, any comments, suggestions, or recommendations are welcome. If this tool could help me do more complex & better looking inlay jobs, I hate to just ignore the existance of it.

SkipSkip Beach38686.4124305556
Author:  Pwoolson [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:12 am ]
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Skip, I doubt that it will help you creat "better" looking inlays. At best, it will probably help you create "faster" inlays. But mistakes will also be made faster. I know they make super tiny blades for them that almost just look like a wire. That might help the accuracy some. I would think lots of blade tension, Fast blade speed and very slow feed rate would be the best combination.
Author:  clavin [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:31 am ]
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is the ability to have full manual control over it. If you approach thin areas, etc.. you can have the ability to change your pressure, force, etc. to make things happen to your own moment by moment preferance.
I have never used a scroll saw, but I also really never have the need for 20 inlays of the exact same type to cut out.
Materials of varying types, especially recon stones, require a really delicate touch. I don't think the scroll saw would be beneficial in some regards. Pearl also dulls blades VERY quickly. You may be changinh them out a lot, someting with a hand blade that takes only a few seconds.
I could also be totally wrong, but for my clients as well, the idea of "all by hand" means more during the drawing, cutting, routing, and engraving stages than any other. That is where you can tell who has been cutting for years, Vs. weeks (most times!).

Craig Lavin
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:07 am ]
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Skip,
I think it would be hard and cost prohibitive to fine scroll saw blades at the right gauge for inlay cutting. Plus like Craig said, you will loose the sensitivity required to navigate tight cuts, and the the control of blade pressure.

That said I have seen a foot tredal powerd set-up for pearl cutting. It was a shop made contrapsion and used a bow from a deep throated jeweler's saw. I saw it on some luthier's web site, but it was so long ago I dont remember where. I remember he built it to relieve stress in his wrist due to carpal tunnel problems
Author:  csullivan [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:34 am ]
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Hi Skip,
I'm certainly no Craig Lavin, but I have hand cut enough inlay to
appreciate you're wanting to automate it somehow. I bought a Proxxon
scroll saw, a small German-made saw, in hopes of using it to not only
speed up cutting, but to also help with the hand and wrist cramping I
experience when cutting for extended periods. After I bought the Proxxon
I tried it at the fastest speed and found that no matter how I fed the
material it would inevitably catch the blade and would be pulled from my
fingers, only to bounce up and down on the blade. The slowest speed had
slightly more success, but still catches. I found overall it's actually harder
to control small pieces on the scroll saw than it is to use the old, tried
and true hand-held jeweller's saw. I have considered buying a variable
speed control to reduce the scroll saw's speed even more, but would like
to try one before I shell out the doe. With just a little practice, it's
amazing how accurately you can cut by hand. As tiring as it is, it's very
satisfying when the hand-cut pieces fit together like a glove.

Craig L., I not only admire your name, I'm in awe of the beautiful inlay
work you do and find it interesting that you still do it the "old-fashioned"
way.
Craig Sullivan
Author:  clavin [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:58 am ]
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There seems to be a number of Craig's in luthiery

Thanks for the compliments on my art.
Yes doing it by hand seems to be odd these days, and I am even an extremely techno-friendly guy. At my day job I use computers to teach with to the point of winning awards for it. But that's what's so amazing about the hand inlaying. It's the challenge that makes one have the desire to keep pushing their own limits. Even at times when I get burned out on it for a few weeks I seem to come back to it wanting more out of it. Plus I like thinking it's hand made in a world where that is rarer by the moment.
I have been doing mostly smaller things lately, but there are a few coming up worth posting soon (I hope)

Craig Lavin
www.handcraftinlay.com
Author:  Skip Beach [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:23 am ]
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Hi Again,

Thanks for your thought provoking & informative comments. CraigL, it seems "right" to me too to cut inlays by hand - otherwise there's art in the inception of the inlay but not much craft or skill involved in the follow through.

Unfortunately, I suffer from mild carpel tunnel syndrome (or something akin to it) & have to deal with pronounced hand tingling every time I cut inlay with a jeweler's saw. No pain as of yet but I have to take many small breaks during the process. That's frustrating but not insurmountable.

I was hoping that using the scroll saw might be a less physically challenging option to this process plus make it easier to cut thicker sandwiches of two materials that will border one another. In again trying to use the saw after adjusting the blade guide, it still was impossible for me to cut accurately without some wandering from the line.

I gave up at that point. What's so bad about a little uncomfortable tingling if the result is a much better looking inlay and fewer wasted materials? Again, thanks for your responses. This is truly a generous and helpful community.

Skip
Author:  CarltonM [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:24 am ]
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[QUOTE=Skip Beach] Unfortunately, I suffer from mild carpel tunnel syndrome... What's so bad about a little uncomfortable tingling if the result is a much better looking inlay and fewer wasted materials?Skip[/QUOTE]

More damage, Skip!!! Be careful, my friend!

You know, scroll saws have been around for a long time, and the first were foot-powered. As was mentioned above, I've been thinking of trying to convert a deep-throat jeweler's saw into a foot-powered machine, just to get a 90-degree cut that doesn't wander all over the place, as it does when I try to cut by hand. I know it's been done before, but I haven't been able to find plans, or even a clear picture to guide me. Eventually, I'll probably be able to come up with something, but these things don't come easy to me--so if someone with a jig-facile mind has a solution, please help. I, Skip and others would be grateful!
Author:  tippie53 [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:37 am ]
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    I to inlay and have mild Carpal tunnel. I got a scroll saw with the same inclination. I did learn that scroll saws cut wood and they smash pearl. I tried every speed and umpteen different blades.
     I took a commision and had to inlay some turtles. See Mr Clavin I do more than vines   LOL . Anyway as an appritiator of the inlay art. ( craigs is fantastic work) I am also trained by Dave Nichols of custom pearl , I did learn to cut by hand. It took a while but by using my little finger and ring finger as the holder on the saw I can cut without any problem.
    Practice makes perfect. I agree the hand eye will beat the machine .
john hall
blues creek guitars
    
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:33 am ]
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Carlton, I will see if I can find the one I once found and post the link. GIve googel atry with "pearl cutter + machine" see what you get
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:47 am ]
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[QUOTE=MichaelP] Carlton, I will see if I can find the one I once found and post the link. GIve googel atry with "pearl cutter + machine" see what you get[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Michael, I'll try that. I'd found one a while ago in a search for treadle tools, but the picture was fuzzy and poorly lighted--just couldn't see the necessary details.
Author:  CarltonM [ Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:46 pm ]
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Michael,

Nope, no luck. Also tried ("pearl cutting" +machine) to no avail.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:02 am ]
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I'm digging through my links so see if I can locate the one I downloaded. will let you know
Author:  Pwoolson [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 am ]
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I once saw a short documentary about the textile industry. They showed a guy cutting out very expensive suit material. The material was stacked about 24 inches thick (I'm guessing 1000 pieces of material) and he cut them on a special scroll saw. The only problem with this technique was when (and I say WHEN) he made a mistake, he screwed up 1000 suits. Progress definately has its limits.
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