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| Comparing side benders - Doolin vs Fox http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3969 |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:55 am ] |
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I'm planning to build myself a side bender, and I'm thinking I might go with something much like what Mike Doolin designed and described in American Lutherie #74. His design makes a lot of sense to me and reportedly excels at bending the most difficult-to-bend woods. I like the simplicity of it as well. What I'd like to know is if any of you have made a bender according to his design, or something very similar, and if you have any thoughts to share about how well it's worked for you. In particular, if you have used a Fox-style bender as well as this Doolin-style bender, would you have observations or opinions to share about what has worked better for you and why? Also, if you've built a Doolin-style bender and modified his design in some way that you feel has improved it, I'd love to hear what you've done. One last related question - Mike uses perforated stainless steel sheet for the top slat to allow the wood to dry out efficiently once the bending is done. I'd like to know if any of you use perforated steel (with whatever style of bender), how you like it, and where you get it. Mike, if you're out there, feel free to jump in if you'd like, though I already bugged you about your bender a while back, so "you have the right to remain silent". |
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| Author: | Scott Thompson [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:26 am ] |
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Todd, I built and use a modified Doolin bender. I went with his design because I frequently use lacewood which is difficult to bend. I first became aware of its suitability for this use in an interview between Doolin and Greven in an issue of American Luthier where they talk specifically about using his bender for lacewood. I’ve never had any problems bending with this machine. The full support of the wood through the bending process is the key. I use the perforated stainless per his instructions, but it probably is unnecessary for me because I wrap the wood in butcher paper first. I think that using unperforated steel might actually be better because it would keep the moisture in to help in the bending. I really like (the idea of) Taylor’s bending technique where they use no extra water at all. I modified it by attaching the clamps to an outer frame similar to the Fox bender so that I could use different forms without having to build a complete bender for each guitar shape. Because the clamps need to be relocated for each shape, I still have to reposition them via different sets of holes in the frame. If I did it again, I would probably go back to mounting them directly on the form, but switch out the clamps to save money. I bought the stainless at McMaster Carr and had it sliced up at a machine shop. I bought enough for a several benders. Expensive stuff. The clamps came from Reid tool supply. Sorry, no picture capability for now. Hopefully that will change after Christmas. |
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| Author: | Addam Stark [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:13 am ] |
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Rick Turner and I have both made and used Doolin style benders, and they work great. I also use a Fox bender and it works just fine. But the Doolin bender in more fool proof. |
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| Author: | arvey [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:30 pm ] |
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I went back and looked at Mikes website to see what the differences between the Dolin and the Fox bender are and I don't get what the big difference is. I use my own home made version of a Fox style bender but I could also call it a dolin style bender I supose cause it is similar to that as well. What are the big differences that Make the dolin style better? |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:15 pm ] |
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I found some problems with both. That is why I made the one I have. Bending isn't so much what you bend on but how you bend. I have been bending wood for a while and I think it is safe to say I bend 6-8 sets a week on average. I have only lost 1 set in the last 3 years. Binding and sides all bend easly if you use the correct heat . The mopre you bend the better you shoula get. john hall |
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| Author: | guitarjtb [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:17 am ] |
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My first bender was the Fox style bender with the light bulbs. It worked fine, but the steel rods gave me problems. After seeing Mike's design, I built one that was a combination of Mike's and the Fox. Of course this meant that I had to buy a bending blanket and timer. That was a large outlay that I was trying to avoid when I built the Fox style. The thing I like Mike's design is that I have a solid surface to work my sides against and don't have work around those steel rods. The mold is also easier to build. You can be creative on the way you connect the screw press and the clamps. The extra benefit was that once I got the bending blanket, I wondered why I ever tried to build without it. I wrap it around my hot pipe, leaving just the end of the pipe exposed, for bending my soundhole purfling. I hang the blanket from my ceiling and clamp the end of it to my fretboard extension to heat it for removal. I can do the same thing to heat up a bridge for removal. |
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| Author: | John Mayes [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:30 am ] |
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seriously....bending using blankets rule. 2 is scads better than 1. And comparing to light bulb bending there is none!! |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:47 am ] |
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Until recently I bent with light bulbs exclusively and it worked well for most wood. I recently got one blanket and controller from John Hall and it sure improves the results using high-zoot wood. For the light bulb method I modified my setup to enhance the performance of the heat transfer of the system (2-200W and 1-150W)from the start and it achieves over 300* as measured on the top slat using a surface pyrometer. I lined all of my forms as well as below the bulbs on the inside with aluminum flashing to get maximum reflectivity. The flashing also protects the inside of the form from scorching. I also sprayed the bottom of the bottom slat with high temperature flat black to get maximum heat absorption. Without these modifications, I could never even get close to 300*. I now use the blanket with the bulbs and feel no need to go to a second blanket. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:57 am ] |
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Thanks Scott, Addam, Richard, John, James, John, JJ, and Terence for your very helpful input. Much appreciated. |
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| Author: | EricKeller [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:03 pm ] |
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I always wanted to build my own bender where there are a lot of actuators and not just 1 or 2 presses. There was that bender somebody posted here a while back where there were three parts that moved, but that's not quite the same thing. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:09 pm ] |
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That is actually over kill. The best bender system I found is with the slats and you tension the wood. The slats will press the wood and support it. Too much pressure will compress the wood and make it shiney. With heat the bend will happen you just want to support it and hold it to cool and set the bend. The original Fox bender had a tie down for this. I use the hold downs and then pull the wood into tension by using the wasit press . This gives you very repeatable results. A trick I learned from Rick Davis. john hall |
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