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| Fallen tree to inst. wood - how hard? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4087 |
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| Author: | John B [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:17 am ] |
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I know I've seen this elsewhere on the net, but I thought I'd ask for thoughts here. I have some nice trees on my property - osage orange, shagbark hickory, black walnut, etc. Some trees have fallen, or have had large branches fall - for example, I have a 30 foot big dead fir or pine-type tree that's still standing, and some fallen trees. The trees are not huge, so any wood I could harvest would be for small instruments (ukuleles, anyone?). So assuming I could get the dead trees cut down, or cut into sections, how difficult will it be to get any amount of usable wood? |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:27 am ] |
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very difficult. |
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| Author: | spruce [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:41 am ] |
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It's not any more difficult than cutting firewood... If you can cut your own firewood, you can cut your own tonewood.... |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:01 am ] |
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All I know: Branches = reaction wood = unstable by nature. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:13 am ] |
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You know, Nice wood is nice wood. If some of your trees have neat colours or figure and are too small for instrument backs and sides, there is always binding, rosettes, end grafts, linings, inlays highlight wood for neck laminations etc. As Bruce says, I will very soon be writing an article for one of the luthier magazines about the harvesting process, I just skiided the logs out today actually, so you will get a sense of how it is done. Cutting tonewood is easy in theory, but there a number of things that you need to pay close attention too, this is the difficult part that is probably now second nature to Bruce! Shane |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:26 pm ] |
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While difficult, it is not impossible Wood usually takes time to dry so the rule of thumb is for air dried wood it takes 1 year for each one inch in thickness. Typicaly you would saw the logs into shorter length sections, approximately 2 foot for tops and backs and around 3 foot for sides. You would then seal the ends right away. Anchorseal is a very good sealant to use and is not hard to find. The logs would need to be split into wedges. The thinner the wedge the less that the wedges will check and split. The thinner the wedge the faster the wood will dry as well. Another reason why splitting the logs into wedges is that wood for instruments is usually best quartersawn as it is most stable and splitting helps to keep the wood quartersawn. By splitting the wedges the interior split face will be the bookmatch to the other half. use these faces as the exterior face as they will match and just remove material from the opposite "waste" face to get the wood to dimension. While this is very laborious and time consuming it is how instruments have been made for years...it is just that today it is easier for most of these steps to already be done for us. Makers of Violin family instruments tend to work with wood in split billet form much more so than guitar builders (other than Archtop builders) and would keep the wood stored in bilet form until it would be worked. While it may be impractical (that is up to you) to build an instrument from wood you have collected, it can be very gratifying. The first couple dulcimers, a mandolin and a violin that I built over 30 years ago all came from wood that had been part of the news behind my family home so for me it was part cheap wood salvage and part using wood that I would associate with a memory of a home and all that went with it. I used Hard Maple (some curly), Italian Poplar (actually sounds good and is sometimes used for violins) and Norway Spruce. I echo what was said about using branches...stay away from them, even larger ones as it is reaction wood. The best salvaged wood will be the cleanest part of the trunk of which sometimes only the bottom few feet may be useful. The standing "fir or pine" will probably be fine. I have collected Englemann Spruce from the Rockies in Colorado that had been standing dead for decades and other than some discoloration on the outer rings was fine. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:58 pm ] |
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Just remember though, the thinner your pieces, the better for drying purposes. I prefer to slice tops while the tree is green and dry them in dimension. No loss do to drying then, otherwise, I always loose a bit of wood and it is harder to cut dry spruce (Lutz anyway's Engelmann seems OK either way) than when it is green. I was also thinking, there is absolutely nothing wrong with three and four piece backs, if done tastefully! SHane |
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| Author: | spruce [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:48 am ] |
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"Another reason why splitting the logs into wedges is that wood for instruments is usually best quartersawn as it is most stable and splitting helps to keep the wood quartersawn." Also, it requires less gear... In order to mill a log on the slab, you basically need a sawmill and a way to transport the log to the mill... Quartering even a large log can be done on-site with only a (hopefully large) chainsaw and a bit of practice... "I prefer to slice tops while the tree is green and dry them in dimension." Interesting... Most large suppliers mill billets, kiln-dry them, and then mill their tops from the dry billets... But the wood does indeed mill easier when green, so there's incentive to go that way as well... "...there is absolutely nothing wrong with three and four piece backs, if done tastefully! " That's an great attitude to cultivate... So much great wood goes by the wayside because of the perception by woodcutters that there is no demand for 4- piece tops or backs... Red Spruce logs on the cusp size-wise comes to mind, as does a lot of Bigleaf with only 7" or so of white wood before the reddish heartwood kicks in... Check out the Servais cello in the Smithsonian sometime. It didn't bother Strad to go with a 4-piece back... |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:40 am ] |
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[QUOTE=spruce] Interesting... Most large suppliers mill billets, kiln-dry them, and then mill their tops from the dry billets... [/QUOTE] The difference between quantity and quality? I like being small.  All of my wood is air dried. If you want it kilned dry you can always bake it. I still prefer air dried wood. If the instrument sounds good once it is built, imagine what it will sound like as the years role by!
Shane |
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