Official Luthiers Forum!

Question for those of you doing repairs, I was talking to a local guitar dealer and he told me that if I got certified by Martin that he could send a ton of work my way.

So what in the world exactly is "Certification"?? and how does one go about getting it??

Are there schools?? are their tests??

Inquiring minds want to know...

-Paul-

_________________
-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Martin is no taking any new repair centers last time I checked. But all it is is an application you fill out and supply some before and after pictures showing repair done in the "Martin way".

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I run a very busy repair shop in NYC and made a decision not to be "certified warranty" for anything. The problem I have heard is that being paid in a timely fashion is the issue. That being said I seem to be the "certified" warranty center and quality control/final setup guy for Ken Smith's KSD line of basses. Every few months they call me and I go to their warehouse in Brooklyn and set up 90 or so basses. I worked out a discount structure with them and am paid upon completion. This works for me but usually backlogs me in my shop. As for Martin I see so many neck reset problems on the inexpensive guitars that I always refer them to Martin as a form of punishment for putting out a guitar that has such a consistent problem. I would be afraid to spend all my time in NY doing these.

_________________
http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

Warranty work in any business can be a hassle. I know Martin in OK like John said is not an option. I went to one in Tulsa and although a Martin dealer and warranty center, they only do very minor things and setups. No neck sets, brace or crack repairs. My father in law was a TV guy before the large dept stores started selling tv less at retail than he could buy them at wholesale, due to volume. He got out of warranty work due to most mnfg only allow a certain amount for a repair, which is less than normal bench time. Also as said payment is very slow. He also got out of it because someone would go to a discount store, buy a tv and when needed fixed wanted him to do it free for them and send bill to mnfg. for payment. He just started only doing repairs on things he sold, but got to point just not worth doing any of it. One other issue I know from another repair guy is that if even done right, the customer continues to gripe about repairs, the mnfg can cause the shop hassles. I do or did some minor repairs, but if a really great guitar say a vintage style 45, I refer them to Galloup or other shop. I hope to go to some seminars and schools and learn more about the repair end as I really like that aspect of things and it can be the bread and butter of a shop. Now live in Branson, lots of guitars. Looking for shop now and hope to get something set up soon.

   Martin certified repair centers are hard to get. They have a few different degrees of certification. Depending upon what you are allowed to do. In the old days it was prety easy to get certified. Today it is very difficult and the process is very time consuming.
   I have my application in for the 3rd year. In that time I was one of the last ones to be able to spend 2 weeks at the plant to learn the Martin way of doing things.
    They froze certifications right after that but they will be looking in the near future to open the few of us waiting.
    Good luck but exptect a few years of waiting and proving your abilities .

Evan, I have a cheap Martin ($531 w/tax & case). What might I expect specifically?

_________________
DES - Shepherd, MI

John it would be a blast to visit Martin and go through something like that, for now I'll just advertise that I do simple repairs and setups and expand out from there. I have been putting some serious thought into visiting one of the trade schools to go through a repair/setup course, I can build guitars no question but repairs are a different animal all-together.

When I took Harry's class on doing guitar setup he told us that Fret jobs where the real money makers and that if you got good at it you could make some decent money off it. I'm not looking to get rich just supplement my time in the shop

-Paul-

_________________
-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Hi Darin, what I have seen dozens and dozens of times is the neck pulling out from the body, thus creating the need for a neck reset. This is not a big deal on those guitars but my problem with it is I don't want to charge my customers for a repair that should be done for free at a Martin service center. Remember they are not all like that so G-d willing you have a good one. Check the heel of the neck to make sure it is not pulling out.Hope this helps.

_________________
http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

In the old daze (for me, early 1970s) the only way to become a Martin
warranty service guy was to replace one who quit. Then, there were only
15 nationally. Locally, that meant Jon Lundberg, who recommended me
as his replacement. His recommendation was literally all it took. I
suspect it would still work that way - the staff at Martin is loyal to those
who support them, and personal recommendations go a LONG way.

Now that there are more like 300 warranty service centers, the turnover
must be more regular, with some becoming decertified, retiring, moving
or whatever. It would do you no harm to check in with the shop(s) most
local to you and talk to them about their status and intentions. Some
shops get tired of warranty service, and might even be thinking of trying
to bow out. That's what happened with Lundberg in 1974 - he just got
weary of complaints from Martin owners. Likewise, getting in touch with
your local sales rep for Martin (Joe McNamara in Northern California) can
provide you with some up to date info. Joe recently reinstated an
Oakland warranty repairman who'd quit for a while to pursue other
things.

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

Sprockett..you are definitely on the right track to providing a supplemental income for your trade. When I had my custom shop on the outskirts of Nashville..repair work was a substantial part of our revenue. I was also a certified repair center and dealer for Martin. In my opinion it is not worth the effort even if you had the opportunity. It is a double edged sword. As Stan pointed out, their rate is less than normal shop time. Martin players are usually the most demanding of all and can cause you problems when it comes to warranty work. You are pretty much a catch all for any complaints or problems they have. I never really made money on their repairs. But, being an authorized repair center, did bring customers into my shop that might not have otherwise found me. And it was a great way to introduce players to my custom guitars. I was actually able to convert a few.
Also, if you gain a reputation as a good repair center, it will minimize the time you have to actually build guitars. But, it is a good way to supplement your income until you gain recognition for your custom work.

Right you are, Jeff. Martin pays low labor rates. When Mike Longworth came
out personally (he did that in those days) to "certify" us, he said, in his best
Chatanooga drawl, "We're going to pay you about half what you think you're
worth, but you'll take that deal because we're a hell of a feather to stick in
your cap."

My response then was, "Yes, sir, thank you, sir."

Three decades later, my response is, "Yes, sir, thank you, sir."

As my partner of all these many years slaves away on the revisions to Mike's
Martin history book, we're constantly reminded of how we miss that guy. . .

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET

Sprockett I agree, don't shy away from the repairs. Certification or not. Once you develop your skills people will flock to you. I solely do repairs and am busier than I ever imagined. I wish I could build, though the Upper West Side of NYC is not conducive to it.You may find the repair work to be more rewarding as it is always different and you are constantly thinking outside the box. Unless you have your forearm wedged in the sound box

_________________
http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

I would consentrate on building guitars. I did repairs and built guitars and the repair work realy takes time away from built time which you need to get realy good. Over 5 years I earned about $110/Hr building verses $30.00/Hr doing repairs. (I built about 200 guitars) I would have made a lot more money and had a lot more fun building than dealing with the repairs. They are ealy two different mind sets. Do either one or the other which ever you like the best. All these years I have learned forget Plan B just stick to Plan A.

[QUOTE=Darin Spayd] Evan, I have a cheap Martin ($531 w/tax & case). What might I expect specifically? [/QUOTE]

If you don't have issues now you will likly be ok. For some reason the mid priced were bad about coming from Martin needing neck sets righ out of the case. I have friend that runs a local Martin dealership here. He tells me that 50% or better of the mid price Martins come to him needing neck sets or poorly set-up. This seems to be more prevalent in the mis size guitars, OOO & OM.MichaelP38701.5003587963

Evan, Thanks for the info.! I'm only an hour from where I purchased my DX1R (cheap, but nonetheless got me hooked on lutherie), so they'll see me if/when there's a problem!!

_________________
DES - Shepherd, MI