Official Luthiers Forum!

HI

I am really a collector who loves to dabble in repair/refinish. I would love to go for a a few day or wek course somewhere to figure more.

Anyway, I just got a 73 Les Paul Standard - kinda rare when they were only making deluxes. The bridge pickup seems way lower in output than the neck. You notice it heavy when changing with the selector. I have brought the pickup and poles as close as I can - still an issue. Sounds as if she is on one bobbin or out of phase. The pickup covers were taken off at sometime so maybe someons did some damage - thoughts? I am no electronics expert but can solder etc.

As long as I am on, what real effect does rasing the stop tailpiece on a les paul? More slinky action??

THX

You need to read the resistance of that pickup. that will tell what is going on with it. Do you have a multimeter? Unless you have a way of telling us more facts, it's going to be hard to say too much.
Have you looked at the wiring inside, and does it all look right? Is the pickup connected properly and not shorting out or anything? The connections from the switch look good, and does the switch operate properly? You could start by connecting each pickup directly to the amp and see if there are still big differences.
It sounds like it has a dead coil. Does the pickup itself look like it's been messed with? Do you think anyone has taken it apart and fooled around with the connections inside under the tape? Unless that was done, the chances of a out of phase problem are low.
Does this pickup have the standard Gibson two conductor shielded wire, or are there four wires?

_________________
Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

I got a multimeter and checked the Ohms of each pickup at the pots - both about 7.5. Checked the wiring near the pots and the switch and no shorts. I could not upload a picture of the pot cavity as it was too large. If you have an email I can send it there.

Standard Gibson I hot wire and the braided casing. Pickup covers were taken off. Switch seems to work fine.

??????????

PS I could use a lesson on what/how to use the multimeter on guitars-- to test broken wires, ohms, what else and how?

Thanks

Try resoldering the connections at the pots and switch, you may have a cold solder joint. As far as a tutorial goes buy the "Guitar Electronics for Musicians" book by Donald Brosnac. It is an older book, but hey hot is always hot and ground is always ground. Let me know how it comes out.

_________________
http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

Also disconnect the pickups from the pots when reading with the ohm meter just to be certain you are doing it correctly. As previously suggested wire 2 alligator clips to an input jack and connect the pickup wires to it. Plug it in to hear each pickup alone. This can save alot of time.

_________________
http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

If you really want to disconnect the pickups to make sure, you only need to disconnect the hot wire, you can leave the ground wires connected to the pots. But as long as you have the pots turned all the way up and the switch not in the center, you can get a close enough reading to get an idea of what is going on. If the pickups are reading 7.5K ohms- the K stands for thousands of ohms so the pickups would be 7500 ohms...then that would be fine and they would be working right, so you are lucky- no bad pickup.
So I would look for a bad connection, or maybe the pickup that isn't working doesn't have its ground connection...follow that.
one handy way to use the meter is to do a continuity test. With the meter set to test continuity, (most of them have a BEEP sound when set this way and the two leads touch or make a connection) clip one of the leads to the ground connection at the jack, and then go through the whole circuit, and touch everything that is supposed to be grounded with the other probe, listening for the beep each time. Touch everything that is supposed to be grounded, even the strings just to test them. After you are sure of that, check the hot side of the circuit the same way. Make sure you can trace the signal through the switch.

_________________
Mark Swanson
Swanson Guitars
http://www.MarkSwansonMusic.com

Thank you both. I will get to it and report back. Much appreciated. As long as I have you, what do you see as the effect of raising the stop tail on an LP? Slimkier action?


Evan, I beleive I met you at Guitar Center NYC when we both attended the seminar given by the Burst Brothers.

THX Dennis

Yup I remember you too. As far as the tailpiece goes you will get less tension, how is the break angle over the back of the bridge? Are the strings touching the rim behind the saddles before they hit the tailpiece? If so I would try and raise it to prevent that. You are actually losing tone if the strings are not traveling freely.
Evan

_________________
http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

I'm wondering if this problem is being over-thought. From what I've read--and this has been verified by personal experience--the neck pickup naturally tends to be louder than the bridge pickup, especially if they read at similar output. Why? Because string movement is much less at the bridge. The neck pickup is at a sweet spot for string vibration, and is simply getting a stronger signal. You can hear this on an acoustic guitar, too. Strum near the bridge, then at the end of the fingerboard. It'll be louder at the fingerboard, 'cause the strings are moving in a wider arc. Here are the solutions I know of: Lower the neck pickup and raise the bridge pickup. If you've got some room after raising the bridge pickup to its maximum, you can still raise the pole pieces (even with humbuckers, though, getting a pickup too close to the strings can cause strange sounds and intonation problems, so play this by ear). Make sure the adjustable pole pieces on the neck pickup are lowered to their flush position. If this fails, you've got individual volume controls, so just turn down the neck pickup until it's at the level you want. This may not work to your satisfaction, though, because Gibson controls are wired to be interactive. There is a way to wire them for independant action--perhaps Evan could help you with this. The final option is to replace the bridge pickup with a higher output unit--a last resort, in my opinion, 'cause those 7.5K Gibsons are probably delivering a really sweet vintage tone! Good luck!

Everthing Mark and Evan said.
Also, it's been my experience that the bridge p/u is louder than the neck. usually a hotter/higher output is the reason. I see this in single coil set ups as well. Most people use their bridge p/u more and for solos so I guess thats why most manufaturers put a hotter pickup there. usually 2-5k hotter.

As far as the tail piece goes changing the height will change the amount of downward pressure on the bridge. On an accoustic this could realy change things. On an electric I think it affects the sustain slightly. I adjust the tail piece so that the strings just clear the bridge edge ( sometimes the tail piece is so close that the strings hit the back part of the bridge and don't clear to the saddles). Also, changing the tail piece height will help if you have been breaking alot of strings at the saddles...although that is only part of the fix...you need to file the saddle groves slightly as well. Changing the tail piece height will NOT change the playing tension of the strings.

If after doing all that Evan and Mark have suggested and your pickups still don't work properly you might want to give Lindy Fralin a call...804-358-2699 he does chat a lot on the phone and is a p/u genious! his site address is http://www.fralinpickups.com/ .Dave-SKG38706.8169444444

_________________
Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Thanks to you all for your great info.

I have a lot of guitars of all years and the issue does not seem to be the same. I agree that the newer set-ups are better--giving a bit more punch in the bridge. I am going to do the ground testing tonight that was recommended and compare the guitar side to side with another of the same vintage. I will report back, but again, your collective knowledge is very much appreciated.

Dennis

OK - checked all grounds and all are good. I did put a 1970 Deluxe next to the 74 and the bridge pickup was louder than the rhythm even though the bridge measured a bit weaker.

In the end I took the advice of lowering the rhythm enough to bring them equal. May just be that the bridge humbucker is a tinny one.