Official Luthiers Forum!
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Resaw dilemma
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4190		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:04 am ]
Post subject: 
So, some of you might remember I have these three boards of perfectly quartered brazilian rosewood (I'm fairly certain that's what it is; had been lying around the lumber yard for yonks, labeled as such, pretty much smells right). Been 'acclimatizing' here for about a year now. 25-5/8" long, 4" wide, and just a hair over 1" thick. They're pretty roughly planed, but flat, true, no crack, no nothing. Did I mention I got all three for about $110?

I'll be getting some maple billets resawn in the near-ish future, so I was thinking I might have these done as well, while I'm at it.

The question is: what best to do with them?

Option 1: I should be able to get a perfect 4-piece back out of each one quite easily. But: no sides, and finding a match would be difficult at best. I should be able to find some matching brazilian veneer (won't be cheap, but that's a given), do laminated EIR/brazilian sides. Thoughts on that option? I mean, I'm after the sound more than the looks; I've got Madagascar Rosewood for the pretty spider-webbing. I've also got zip experience with building laminated sides, and the only veneers here are cut (paper thin type), odds of finding sawn brazilian veneer are just about zero.

Option 2: Matching fingerboard/headplate/bridge blanks. Cut up into fingerboard-sized blanks just big enough for a 20-21 fret acoustic guitar (25.5" scale 'board, no bigger), 3 per board (out of 1" thickness) so I have enough 'waste' space to get a bunch of matching headplates (if the resawer's as good as he's reputed to be, I figure 4-5 plates out of a 1" board should be doable, right?), and enough for at least 3, probably 4 bridge blanks from each board. I mean, what's not to love about matching bridge/fingerboard/headstock combos, right?

I'm really quite torn, so I'd appreciate the feedback, thoughts, etc. What would YOU do with 'em? Unless I can make up my mind, though, I'll just leave them in their happy-go-lucky board state until I am sure.

gratuitous picture:
Mattia Valente38707.3368287037
Author:  Brock Poling [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:35 am ]
Post subject: 

Man... I don't know... what a good problem to have. fb's and head plates are certainly a good idea.

Also... don't forget your electrics. A brw top cap would be pretty sweet.

Ever thought about making ukes?   
Author:  Tim McKnight [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 12:56 am ]
Post subject: 
I had an orphan Braz back. I sent one half of it to Steve at Colonial and he matched up a set of sides for me.

If shipping isn't an option you might try sending some really hi res pictures to him.Tim McKnight38707.3733912037
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I pondered the electrics, but I'm not really a big on building flat-topped guitars (and those that I do build will probably be more sedate). Also seems a bit of a waste to use brazilian on an electric, when it's that thin, and will probably do little to nothing with the sound. I feel I should 'save' this stuff for acoustic instruments. I mean, if I'm gettin' truly decadent, these are perfect one-piece neck blanks, but I can't quite bring myself to seriously consider that. I dither about the 3 cocobolo blanks I have as neck blanks as it is!

And, uh, no, not really considered Ukes since I don't play 'em ;-) Although those Jake Shimbakuro (or however the heck you spell it) vids did make me ponder learning.

Tim: shipping these would be problematic. It's old growth, very old lot that the wood yard bought off a retiring woodworker 10+ years ago, so they don't have CITES paperwork. Maybe if I can figure out a way to get dead-on accurate photographs, shoot next to a colour reference chart or something...Mattia Valente38707.3793287037
Author:  tippie53 [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:06 am ]
Post subject: 
MAN WHAT A PIECE
I think I would make them side sets and look for backs. That is top shelf stuff and backs are not that hard to find.
   John Hall
Author:  Dave White [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Mattia,

I had a similarish problem when I made my first guitar In my local hardware store I came across three blocks 27"x4"x3" of "Old Rio Rosewood" for around ?60 each. The guitar was dictated by this: small bodied, 16 fret body join, 6 piece back and relatively shallow. Just under 26" is a little tight though.

A couple of "off the wall thoughts".

You could do a double cutaway a la Doolin with venitian cutaways. 4" is deep enough for a great sounding acoustic as I found with the "Slim Jim" I posted about recently. If you want wider sides, I know Stefan Sobell joins his scantling Braz pieces lengthwise to make wider sides.

Alternatively you could make longer sides by joining pieces on the ends. Given proper side braces and some creative thought I bet this would work structurally and could be interesting visually. The best place would probably be somewhere in the middle of the lower bout curve back to the heel block, but there may be other more "interesting" places. If the join can't be matched in terms of the grain/pattern, then you could do some interesting curving joins rather than straight, and inlay
the same wood as the binding that could then merge into the top and bottom bindings.Dave White38707.3843981481
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:22 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=tippie53]   MAN WHAT A PIECE
I think I would make them side sets and look for backs. That is top shelf stuff and backs are not that hard to find.
   John Hall [/QUOTE]

John, they're only 25" long, ergo fine for backs (4-piece), not so much for sides. If they'd had anything longer I would've nabbed it in a heartbeat!
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:29 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Dave White]
Alternatively you could make longer sides by joining pieces on the ends. Given proper side braces and some creative thought I bet this would work structurally and could be interesting visually. The best place would probably be somewhere in the middle of the lower bout curve back to the heel block, but there may be other more "interesting" places. If the join can't be matched in terms of the grain/pattern, then you could do some interesting curving joins rather than straight, and inlay
the same wood as the binding that could then merge into the top and bottom bindings.[/QUOTE]

OK, this is potentially intruiging! A quick measure reveals the 'tailpiece' would have to be about 20-25 cm for a grand A model (16" lower), less for an OM or a parlour; basically do 3-piece sides, two small tailblocks instead of one larger one. If the resawing's careful enough that could mean a full 2 sets (plus a bunch of headplates) out of these three boards. The stuff's fairly straight-grained, so a match *might* be possible, but I suspect simply accenting the joins with a matched pair of end grafts (binding width, no more) would work well too.

I should really go do some sketches/accurate measurements. Doolin-style double cutaways don't work very well for me (his are great, but my personal aesthetic doesn't want to let me attempt things that are pointy on acoustics..)Mattia Valente38707.398125
Author:  Colin S [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:19 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm with Dave, I'd go with three piece sides with the join on the lower bout, I'd even use the same inlay between the pieces on the sides as on the back, assuming your going to use a back strip. Don't try and hide it, honesty of construction. You can add a laminate on the inside to reinforce the joint.

OK, so your a piece short for the second guitar, use a contrasting bit of wood for the rear piece on the sides of the second guitar. There is no law that says the back and sides have to match. Go look at Howard Klepper's site for a whole bunch of inspiration and the ultimate in eye candy.

It's too good to just saw up for bridges and headplates.

Colin

Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Right, that's a bunch of votes for back/sides, practically none for other uses. That's settled, then! I'll talk to the resawing dudes, see what they think they can do with it.

Colin: I'll accent the joint, not hide it. Doubt I'll be using this until I feel I've got a grip on what I'm doing with the body shape I integrate it into, but I'll go have it sawn into nice thin slices soon. Oh, and I'm a fairly regular visitor of Howard's website. Dovetail Madness is still near the top of my list of favourite pieces of instrument building art, and his eye for design is really quite excellent.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
A local builder here in the Toronto area amde a guitar entirely out of wood he bought at Lee Valley - 6 piece spanish cedar top, and thre piece sides, as the longest board they sell is 24 inches. He accented the joints, which were symetrical about the typical tail wedge, wiht contrasting wood and shell border. So think of it as a 12 inch tail join, using two tail blocks. Works fine IMO, especially with wood that looks like that.
Author:  Anthony Z [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mattia, send them to me together with an invoice for $110 plus shipping    Or send them to Howard to dovetail backs and sides for you.

Seriously, you should be able to find sides/ribs for some really cool 4 piece backs.Anthony Z38708.0708217593
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=TonyKarol] A local builder here in the Toronto area amde a guitar entirely out of wood he bought at Lee Valley - 6 piece spanish cedar top, and thre piece sides, as the longest board they sell is 24 inches. He accented the joints, which were symetrical about the typical tail wedge, wiht contrasting wood and shell border. So think of it as a 12 inch tail join, using two tail blocks. Works fine IMO, especially with wood that looks like that.[/QUOTE]

Spanish cedar top? Not Western Red? I've pretty much decided this is the way to go, probably/possibly with a constrasting tailpiece, unless the resawer can squeeze an extra plate out of one of the sides. You woldn't happen to have any photographs, would you?

[QUOTE=Anthony Z] Mattia, send them to me together with an invoice for $110 plus shipping    Or send them to Howard to dovetail backs and sides for you.

Seriously, you should be able to find sides/ribs for some really cool 4 piece backs.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm....I think I'll pass, thanks :-p
Author:  TonyKarol [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:23 am ]
Post subject: 
Yep, spanish cedar top - why not - like I said it was all from woods that LV sells. His mentor Serge DeJonge has made entire guitars from spanish cedar - back sides top neck - all of it.

His name is Greg Furan, check out Furanguitars, he has no pix of that one on the site, but may have some to show you how it looked once complete.
Author:  Bobc [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:33 am ]
Post subject: 
How about curly spanish cedar?
Author:  jfrench [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Bob - you got any?
Author:  csullivan [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:04 am ]
Post subject: 
I would cut it all up for backs and find some sides to match. A perfect
match isn't really necessary, as a coloration difference can be handled
with color tints.
Craig
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/