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Does anyone here clamp their bindings with ropes vs. tape or rubber bands? What type of rope do you use? How long? Does the glue stick to it? Does the hardened glue, on the rope, ding or scratch the top? I assume you can only bind 1/2 of one surface at a time?

I have been using binding tape for several years but I am looking for alternate methods. Tried rubber bands / inner tubes but didn't care for that method. The benefit of tape is that I can bind the entire box in one setting. The draw back is blisters and sore fingers. I know ... quit my whining

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Hi Tim, what part of the operation is giving you blisters and sore fingers? Is it pushing in the bindings
and making them snug while getting the tape tight?

[QUOTE=Paul Schulte] Hi Tim, what part of the operation is giving you blisters and sore fingers? Is it pushing in the bindings
and making them snug while getting the tape tight?[/QUOTE]
Pulling the tape tight. I do hold the bindings tight with one hand while pulling the tape tight with the other hand. After binding 8 guitars last weekend, I have patches of skin missing from my fingers.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] [QUOTE=Paul Schulte] Hi Tim, what part of the operation is giving you blisters and sore fingers? Is it pushing in the bindings
and making them snug while getting the tape tight?[/QUOTE]
Pulling the tape tight. I do hold the bindings tight with one hand while pulling the tape tight with the other hand. After binding 8 guitars last weekend, I have patches of skin missing from my fingers.[/QUOTE]

There's your problem, you work too hard! Does your day job know about this affliction?

Regards, Steve

yes that is kind of what I thought. I usually only do one guitar at a time so haven't run into that problem. How about if you put a couple of good cloth bandaids over the problem areas on your fingers before you start binding or maybe some thin rubber gloves like the ones sold for dishwashing? Blisters on the fingertips are no fun. Have you tried the Scotch brand 233+ tape used in automotive detailing? It's got just a bit of stretch to it and helps pull things tight for you. Learned that one form Mario.

I found that Cupaino's taping method using stew-macs binding tape workes well in most cases. I still use 1" wide tire tube when multi layered side and top purfling is involved. Glue can be an issue but nothing that a scraper will not handle.

Tim,

You might try looking at Mike Doolin's site. He binds his with shock cord on a jig that looks like a cradle/half-mold. I've emailed him on the subject and he always responds quickly. I haven't tried it yet, but Mike's binding work is beautiful and it might save your fingertips. Here's a picture of his setup.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

Tim, if you think you have sore fingers now, just wait till you try it with rope. The biggest problem I've had with tape is cleaning up after but I've gotten better at it and use much less glue so the cleanup is now minimal.
When I tried the rope thing, yes I had glue sticking to it and found that on repeated use the little chunks of glue from a previous use would mar the top when they fell near an edge on the tops. Could'a just been my lack of technique though.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I've always used a long strip of 'rubber rope', cut from a truck inner tube. Cut it as smoothly as possible: nicks in the edge are stress risers, and the rope will break there.

There's a bit of technique involved in getting the rope on tight. There's also a bit of strength. I can do a guitar a day that way; two would be pushing it for sure, although maybe after a while I would not be so puny.

That Doolin jig looks like it would work well.

I think rope is more pain than it's worth, I bought 100ft of good quality binding rope and only tried it twcie and went back to brown tape, Jimmy's jig would be an easy way to do it. But I don't need ANOTHER jig, I find that tape works just fine...

I use the rope now to pull down the top and back when gluing them on...

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Twill tape. It is the cotton lining found in the collars of rugby shirts. Works like a charm

Tim, take a look at this, maybe you can find something there that may help.

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Robbie: Do you have any pictures of your set up?

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

[QUOTE=Rod True] Tim, take a look at this, maybe you can find something there that may help.[/QUOTE]
Rod:
I tried nitrile and rubber dishwashing gloves but the brown binding tape sticks too well to them and is a pain to get the glove un-stuck. Thanks for the idea though.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I used to use rope, but I switched to inner tube strip recently. Rope does have some "issues" that have already been mentioned, (glue balls being the worst) but I never had a gap in my bindings when I was using it. The nice thing about it is that it doesn't completely hide the joint you are gluing. You can usually see if a gap is developing & correct it as you go.
The best rope I tried was 3/16" soft nylon braid, purchased at a ship's chandlery. It was fairly easy on the hands & didn't crush the corners of the bindings too badly. Thinner rope can put deep dents in the bindings.
Lots of old timers use 1/4" hemp & swear by it... never tried it myself.

Tim,
I use mostly the brown tape and the long rubber bands from stewmac. While at Gibson's Custom Shop a few years ago I watched them bind several guitars rather quickly using thinly cut rags twisted into a rope like cord. The person doing it bound the whole guitar in about 15 minutes or less ( if memory serves correct). Some of the rags/ropes were used over while others that had a lot of glue on them were discarded.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=Tim McKnight] Robbie: Do you have any pictures of your set up?[/QUOTE]

Both of my guitar building instructional DVD's show this method. Here are a couple of shots.

Tim,

   I've used twill tape on almost 500 acoustic guitars and even more electrics than that. It is strong, durable and has a bit of stretch that keeps everything tight and well unde control with little danger of tears and cuts and blister on your fingers.

   I got my original dozen lengthes from Martin when they were changing to newer material and were tossing it out years ago (early 80's). Later i had a Friend's wife donate about 150 yards of it when she noticed it ion my shop and remembered having it on a shelf in her sewing room. When it breaks , you can tie it together again, but after two breaks or so it's best to just toss it and unravel a new length from you spool.

   I've bound as many as 18 guitars in a single 16 hour day using it and all with no blisters or tears in my fingers. Once you're familiar with the wrappingmethid that holds every inch of the guitar's perimeter in place and moves along quickly for you, it's possible to make great time with very clean results.

   Did somebody mention a day job earlier in this thread? I wish I could turn my guitar building into a day only job, but I've been working day and night for the past few months in an effort catch up on my backlog a little. I'm gaining on it now and should be back to about ten hours a day in a month and a hlaf or so.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega guitars

for those interested you can get this stuff at www.twilltape.com
It is much cheaper here than at your local fabric store.

Surgical tubing: learned from Linda Manzer. Fit the binding well, glue and
tape (just a few pieces of tape), then wrap with 1/4" surgical tubing. Easy on
the hands, provides good compression, easy to adjust the amount of
pressure as needed, easy to remove (at least, when using Titebond or
equivalent). Relatively cheap and durable, too!

The only problem is that if you lose control as you're wrapping, the guitar
can turn into a large Frisbee-like object and go spinning across the
workshop. Not to be done when you're easily distracted.

[QUOTE=Robbie O'Brien] for those interested you can get this stuff at www.twilltape.com
It is much cheaper here than at your local fabric store. [/QUOTE]
Robbie, what width and weight do you recommend? TIA.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Just about anything will work. Mine is about and inch wide and not very heavy duty.

I bend my binding in the same mold I use to bend my sides, so the amount of pressure I have to exert on the binding is minimal. Because of this, I usually just use 3M blue tape. If I do have a spot or two where it looks like I may get a gap, I use a long clamp with scraps of wood for cauls so as not to mar the surface to cinch it down the rest of the way.

I was given a roll of jute twine several years ago that must have a couple of miles of twine on the roll (available at the big box stores). It's pretty coarse stuff, but doesn't mar the wood cuz it tends to flatten on the binding edges. I've used it for binding before, but most often I use it for strapping down the back when I glue it into place.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Robbie, why the overkill? You're using more tape than I would, then wrapping it all up, too?

Tim, there are plenty of good suggestions here, and I can offer up one that is a cross between masking tape and Kevin's twill tape.

Hockey tape. HEad down to a sporting goods store, and get a few rolls of hockey tape. The stuff is used to wrap their sticks, to build them up to better hold onto them, as well as where the puck is handled. It's a cloth tape, with just enough glue to hold onto itself. As binding tape, you would first tape up the bindings with masking tape, but only every 6 inches or so, then wrap it like Robbie's, with the hockey tape. It has some stretch, and it will only stick to the edges, and not the top and back. Acts very much like the twill tape...

I've use this method plenty, and it works well. I now just use the 233+ on its own, though.

Oh, and you could build up your hands, too, to avoid blisters. Stop washing dishes! <bg> Now, go out and fill a small box(shoe box size) with fine sand. Beach sand. Next time you sit to watch TV, set the box on your lap, and work your hands in it. Force your hand into the box, open, then make a fist, slowly, within the sand. Then open the hand, then make a fist, etc.... The sand is abrasive(d'uh!) and will force your skin to callus and toughen up, while the resistance will build up strength.

I once worked in a pulp mill where the work was so tough, we had to do this if we were off-sick for more than a week. I had a 1/2" thick callus on each thumb from this work at one point! Anywho, it will do you good to build up some skin....

Bingo, the light bulb just came on ... duh!

I think what makes my skin (soft) isn't doing dishes but wiping the excess glue squeeze out from the bindings before I tape them. I am constantly dipping my hands in hot water wiping squeeze out as I go. I am pretty liberal with the glue when binding so this probably explains the blisters and torn skin. My fingers get a bit pruny after a few guitars. The plus side of this process is there is hardly any glue to clean off after the tape is removed.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com