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Funny how things work, I just told a story about my first guitar and how great everything went with the player review etc. So, this morning I pick up the guitar and Noooooo, the top is pulling apart at the center seam between the bridge and butt/tail. I do not have the guitar in a case, and it is not humidified, I know better. So I'm wondering if the glue joint failed or if the dry air caused it to seperate. In any event I need to fix this and was wondering if you guys have any suggestions. Can I just sqeeze glue into the joint with some spruce dust and gently clamp it together,or do i need to pull off the top and start over....boy I really do not want to do that. Thanks for your suggestions.

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

I would (FIRST) try to humidify the guitar. If then the joint closes up, you could wick in some ca and refinish that area. Trying to clamp it from the lower bouts may or may not work, but you also risk maring the bindings.
Hide glue is good for this problem also.

Good luck!
Lance -
PS maybe Frank Ford will chime in?LanceK38709.3866666667

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

    This is normally a humidity issue. When was the top braced and what was the humidity, I brace the tops for my guitars in winter when the humidity is low.
john hall

Greg

sfter you get it back together it would be worth getting some diamond patches on the seam.

Yeah, I didn't use the diamond patches, completely forgot as I was bracing the top, I'll certainly use them from now on.

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Gwaltney Guitars

I thought about this as well, I did my bracing in the summer at 70% humidity, it's 35-40% in my house right now and this guitar is the first ever that I have not kept humidified in a case....silly of me, no more though.

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Gwaltney Guitars

Eek. That's the problem right there: bracing at 70%.

The humidity in your house right now is only a hair below optimum for building (43-47% are the numbers I see thrown around most often).

Hey Greg,
Don't worry. There is always a fix.
I have a tennis ball that I cut some holes in and place a damp piece of cloth inside. I put this in the guitar and keep it in a case or inside a plastic bag for a while. That should help to re-hydrate it.
Then try what Lance said.
Good luck!

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Could you please give me some advice on CA application and some brand name tips as I have never used it before, thanks.

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Gwaltney Guitars

It'll take more than a tennis ball to bring it back. Try a large garbage bag with a damp sponge in the bottom. Place the guitar in the bag(don't let it touch the sponge!!), then hang guitar and bag from a hook for a few days.

Better yet, buy a large humidifier. You will need one to prevent this from happening again anyhow, so get one now. Get a large console jobbie. Place it in a small room(bathroom if you need to), and set the guitar on a stand in that room. With the room at 70%+ for a few days, the crack should close right up. Work in some hot hide glue, or LMI white, like you are packing a wheel bearing. With one hand inside the guitar, push the top up at the crack while the outer hand works the glue into it. No dust. The crack should be tight enough to not need clamping at this point. Add a couple cleats the next day, and then keep this guitar at 65%+ the rest of its life.

As was said, you braced at 70%. Bad, real bad. We all brace at 42-47%. At you current level, that is like taking anyone else's, including all factory guitars, down to 5-10%. There isn't a guitar maker in the world that expects his/her guitars to live in that environment without a major problem. Your guitar will always be dry, and on the verge of imploding, at anything below 60-65%RH!!!

I have said it many times: THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL IN YOUR SHOP IS THE HYGROMETER. And even more importantly, you need at least 2 of them, so that if one reads wrong, the other will tell on it.

Sorry for the upper case yelling, but it bears yelling.

If I were you, I'd bite the bullet and re-top it with one that was made of properly seasoned woods built at the proper RH. You'll be fighting this one forever....

Sorry.Mario38709.4216087963

He may be grumpy but he tells it like it is that Mario.   

I have a small room and I bougt a fairly small humidifier. I hav eto fill the jug twice a day but it has done a great job...never below 39% and never above 45%.

Greg, Mario speaks the truth, you will be fighting this one til you give it up, there is no way to fix the problem, only the symptom and it will re-occur unless you move to the swamp or replace the top. A properly built guitar should be happy in 40% humidity.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I agree with Mario on this one (wow, did I really just say that? ). Unless you move the guitar to Baton Rouge, it's never going to be happy. And you won't be either, trying to keep it at 65%. I say re-top it and mark it up to experience. Yeah, it sucks but I think you'll be more happy in the long run.

Ahhh, Seedling learn from mistake, buy hygrometer and humidifier, brace at 45% humidity, no more problems.

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Gwaltney Guitars

Wow. The truth hurts sometimes.
I have to agree with Mario. He would know more about these things.
I wonder if the crack has relieved the pressure of the humidity difference and if you patch the crack with a thin wedge of the same material you used for the top in a 40% humidified shop it may survive?
Maybe not. Probly a bad idea. I suppose re-topping would be a good learning experience after all.
Good luck Greg. We know what your going through. Especially with your first and all.

Wade

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

You had better keep an eye on the rest of the guitar. I know a guy that did the same thing as you, built the guitar in high humidity. Well a few weeks ago the back cracked in 2 places. Not small cracks either, about 1/16-1/8" wide and the full length of the back!!!!!

Take these guys advice and get your shop or building environment properly humidified. That way you can avoid this in the future.

Diamond patches are great but not absolutely necessary. If the guitar is built under the proper conditions you should not need them. I have never used them and have had no problems. But it can't hurt to put them on either.

JoshJosh H38709.4550578704

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
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I had a guitar with the same problem. Unless you like elongated soundhole technology you need to redo the top.
   I tried hydrating and putting in a piece , NO GO. NEVER BRACE TOPS ABOVE 55%

Hi Greg

As Josh said the diamonds are not essential, and wouldn't have prevented this, I was more suggesting them as a way to reinforce the join.

If you atempt to glue it back together (and just start over and use this one for a shop 'beater' (so sorry) guitar) use hide glue, Lee Valley gap filling glue or LMI glue. CA has a bad habit of staining nice light coloured spruce yellow in some cases and that would only magnify the problem.

Shane

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Canada

Greg
time to start your second build

Gg

Hesh, I agree. I had bridge issues for my first few as well. The bridge is one of the most important glue joints you will make. Even though I have had a few builds that have held up fine for more than a year now, I still don’t trust them to stay put.

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Wade
Nashua, NH
http://www.wadefx.com

Yup... bridges, that's where you learn about glues

Gg

I just picked one of mine up from a dealer this week that had the bridge pull up. This is only the second time it has happened to me, but I think I am going to have to re-examine my bridge gluing procedure.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Hi, Greg,
            After reading you post yesterday on your first guitar review , I am so dissappointed for you. I really feel for you . One of the most cruel building stories I've heard of.
All you can do is put it down as experience , and be assured it will never happen to you again.
Your current dissappointment will, in time ,become a distant memory. Especially when you complete your N0.2.
All the very very best to you Greg.

Kindest regards KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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