Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Bending questions

Official Luthiers Forum! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Bending questions http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4381	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:31 am ]
Post subject:
What would you guys recomend for a 1st time bender? A home-made bending iron, an electric one, or build a bending machine with heating blankets and/or light bulbs? Just wondering what are the pros and cons before I make a decision.

Author:	Pwoolson [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:44 am ]
Post subject:
Laurent, if you are going to keep at this, it's pretty safe to say that someday you WILL build a Fox bender. Granted there are a few out there bending by hand but if time is an issue at all a bender is a must. I'd go ahead and build one now. Use blankets, not bulbs. Much more control of the heat.

Author:	Shane Neifer [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:51 am ]
Post subject:
I agree with Paul, I am on my first guitar but I built a bender from the plans that LMI sells and I got the video too, it was cheap and helped in the building process as I had a good idea of what I was building was expected to do. My first is a venetian cut-away so I built the cut-away attachment also which the plans I have did not show so I guessed at it from the video and it worked well. I just use 3 150W bulbs but by all accounts I will be buying a blanket at some point. If you think you will also then the save the expensive of ceramic bulb fixtures (don't use plastic, they will melt!) and get a blanket from John Hall, Blues Creek Guitars, from the get go. Shane

Author:	Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:56 am ]
Post subject:
I am with Paul, bend a Fox style bender. I use 3 200 watt bulbs for several years. Now I use a blanket on the same bender. There is some knowage to be had by learning to bend on pipe, but if you pay attenion to what is happening in the bender you will learn most of the same. I would go for the blanket and controler. Bulbs take a while to heat the wood, and then it is not near as even heat as with the blanket. with bulbs a side was a 20 min job from heat up to finish bend. with the blanket it is a 6 or 7 min. job with most woods. But you can scorch the wood much quicker with the blanket because the blanket can get to 400F very fast but if your there and paying attintion it is simple. A good temp probe is a must because you go from ambient to 300F in two min.MichaelP38722.7066898148

Author:	RussellR [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:50 am ]
Post subject:
Hi Laurent I bent by hand for a few years and still do if I am doing a one off and don't want to make a form, however I do really like my bending machine and blanket, it is quick and easy,very accurate, and since I have had the machine I haven't so much as cracked a side (Well except for the one I bent back to front and broke trying to correct ) That said there is something very satisfying about bending on a pipe. The real difference with the electric one and a torch and pipe is first the safety aspect of the naked flame and saw dust etc, and keeping the temp regulated on the electric ones you set it and it controls its self with a pipe and torch you have to monitor and adjust the temprature. As the others said if time is an issue go for the bending machine.RussellR38722.7433449074

Author:	Serge Poirier [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:56 am ]
Post subject:
Hi Michael, i just bought myself those 3- 200 watts bulbs and ceramic fixtures, and plan on building a fox bender, being unexperienced on bending hardwoods, would you recommend to throw my bulbs and fixtures away and go with the blanket right away ? Thanks Serge

Author:	Brock Poling [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:16 am ]
Post subject:
While I have and use my fox bender and blankets 90% of the time I only got these and began using them after I felt (reasonably) comfortable bending by hand. I think to develop bending skills is a "core" component to making guitars. I am constantly bending something... even with my fox bender setting a few feet away -- a piece of binding for a headstock, the cutaway area of a figured piece of wood... veneers for the back of a headstock. Always something. Honestly, once you have the hang of it it goes pretty fast. I think bending and cutting binding rabbets are the most intimidating part of your first few builds... Neiter of which is terribly tough once you have a little practice. Just my .02 worth...

Author:	TonyKarol [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:25 am ]
Post subject:
I do both - but the majority of the bending is in the fox, or a similar mold type bend. The pipe is almost a requirement to touch up a waist that sprung back to much from the fox, or to tighten up a cutaway. Binding as well is sometimes easier on the pipe. Pre glued purfling lines for a top or back , or rosette ring, I almost always do on the pipe - its faster. I had 3x200 bulbs in the bender but have since gone to a blanket. Never bulbs again, the blanket is far superior, especially if you are attempting a venetian cut as well.

Author:	Steve Saville [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:27 am ]
Post subject:
I think you should get an electric bender and learn to do it by hand. I really enjoy it. The electric bender will always come in handy in the future if/when you get a Fox bender.

Author:	Graham Steward [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:32 am ]
Post subject:
I agree with Brock. I used a home made hot pipe on my first build and after several test bends and then bending the real stuff ie; sides and bindings you really get a intimate feel for how the wood reacts in that situation. Although you don't have to learn how to do it that way if you really don't want to since the Fox bender will do the job. Thanks,

Author:	sfbrown [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:47 am ]
Post subject:
Laurent, I feel uniquely qualified to give an opinion here as I just bent my first two sets of sides a few weeks ago. I used a bending iron and the results, while not perfect taught me a lot about wood (this from a guy who has been a woodworker for about 30 years! ). I learned very quickly what the wood felt like when it was ready to "go", how to hold it to set and how to correct problems (yes, I had a few) with twist etc. I practiced on some odd sides from the Zootman (Bob Cefalu) first and then went for it. I have to give an enormous amount of credit to Robbie O'Brien's DVD on guitar making for help here. While I had devoured Cumpiano's book first, it left many questions that the DVD answered. My feeling is that while I may resort to a Fox Bender eventually, the freedom of form given with hand bending will allow me to explore for the time being and to decide on optimum designs that suit my capabilities and the sound I am looking for. When I can decide on shapes that I wish to "mass" produce, I will then worry about automated bending. But, on the other hand, I am making classicals and we are a weird bunch! Remember what you paid for this advice! Regards, Steve PS, If you want a pic of the "imperfect sides" I will be happy to post onesfbrown38722.7836226852

Author:	jack [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:43 am ]
Post subject:
Laurent, I have a bending pipe with a screw-in electrical heating element that I've had going on twenty years.It works fine...you would be welcome to it if you'll pay the freight...from Alabama. I think that it was a "kit" I got from either Luthiers Merchantile,or StewMacback in the early eighties. I used it to bend sides for several guitars and flat topped mandolins. I would agree with Paul Woolson in that if you stick with building you'll want a fox style bender sooner or later, and probably a heating blanket over the light bulbs, but there are always going to be occasions where you'll go back to the pipe.... plus, it can be fun....... ..if you want this thing, email me off line with address..I'll email you after I mail it to tell you how much postage to send. Fair enough? regards, jack

Author:	Josh H [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm another one who bends on an electric iron. After doing It for 2 years I am starting to get good. I can bend one side in 15-20 min. After letting it cool in the mold I will usually need to touch it up once more which takes about 5 min. Like many guys here have said it is a great skill to learn. I don't know if I will ever use a machine. For now my shop is too small for a fox style bender and all the forms I would need for my different shapes. You can go either way, but learning to bend on a hot pipe will come in really handy as you build. You will probably need the pipe to do touchups anyway. Josh

Author:	Brad Goodman [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:
I just posted on the other thread about bending-I bend on an electric iron and agree with Brock-even with a bender it's a good skill to have-sometime you might want to bend part of a rosette or head binding etc. Josh-You are pretty fast, it takes me more like 45 minutes per side.

Author:	j.Brown [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Not sure what "Style" this one is, but its from Robbie O'Brien's How-To Steel String DVD. It is for use with a bending blanket. This style is super easy to use. Highly recommended. -j.

Author:	Shawn [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:
I think everyone should bend on a pipe and no wimping out with an electric element in a pipe...real men bend using a flame from a torch heating up the pipe ...only so you can REALLY appreciate how life changed when the fox bender and all of the derivatives came into use... Life is so much easier with a bending form..no singed belly hair (literally!), no ruined sides (pick your favorite defect...cracks, splits, scorch marks, flames, shapes that defy what instrument they would fit)... Just as certainly you will use a Fox bender, at some point you will need to use a pipe (touchups, cutaways, etc) so dive in...

Author:	Dickey [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:
J. Brown, Nice looking Bender I see the plank on the bottom. Does this mean you have to cut the side to perfect length before bending? Mine like this allows for them to run long and I cut them after the fact on the bandsaw. Doolin starts his at the tail and bends forward, which is kind of cool. So many ways to do something. We find a method that we like and life is good, eh?

Author:	Josh H [ Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Brad It has taken some practice (and several sets of broken sides) to get this fast. It does take me a little longer on some of the more difficult woods. I really don't think I will ever switch to machine bending. Right now I have 5 shapes I build and I will probably expand that to 8+ over the next few years. I can't imagine where I would store all the forms for this many shapes. Not to mention that I would also need cutaway forms for each shape. Josh

Author:	Alain Desforges [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:52 am ]
Post subject:
Hey Laurent. Here's my 5 cents worth... If you really want to get a feel for what you're doing and don't plan on trying to mass-produce, a bending iron is the way to go. I build mine with stuff lying around the shop and it cost me a buck and a half. (I can send you pics if you want) It's easy to use, teaches you a lot about the qualities of wood, is fairly quick (maybe not as quick as the bender, though), and as I mentioned, is pretty cheap if you build it yourself. And like everyone said, you'll need one anyway for binding, cutaways and such.... I'd say start with a pipe, try it out and if it doesn't work out or you don't like it, get a bender. That being said, there are a few little cautions about the fire fed piperola that I've learned the hard way. - I now always put aluminium foil on the wood I'm bending. (especially for pale and curly woods) - Only use distilled water in the spray bottle, and, use very very little water for bending curly woods unless you want severe cupping. - Experiment with a baffle to get that temperature just right. It's a bit tricky, but once you get the right setting, you won't need to fiddle with it too much. Hope this helps. Cheers

Author:	Michael McBroom [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:34 am ]
Post subject:
[QUOTE=j.Brown] Not sure what "Style" this one is, but its from Robbie O'Brien's How-To Steel String DVD. It is for use with a bending blanket. This style is super easy to use. Highly recommended. -j. [/QUOTE] Looks like the one that Sloane shows in his book Classic Guitar Construction I went with something even simpler: I use a clamp for that center caul, and have a couple of flat pieces for each end that I clamp in place. I use a thermostatically controlled heating blanket with it. Best, Michael

Author:	j.Brown [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:14 am ]
Post subject:
Dickey, Thanks. I am happy with the way it turned out. Pretty clean, I think. To answer your Q: No, the side doesn't have to be cut perfectly before bending. I left it about 3 1/2" higher than center of the guitar. This should allow for some operator error on the band saw and a little movement for corrections if need be. -j.

Author:	RussellR [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:22 am ]
Post subject:
Hesh I use one of John Halls Fox Style Benders, and it is absolute joy, the cowels move freely and fit perfectly. Enjoy

Page 1 of 1	All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/