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Author:	doctapayne [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:56 pm ]
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Hi, my name is Brent and I'm fairly new around here. I've been spending sometime researching guitar building here and on some other websites. I'm considering making my first build an acoustic guitar from a "kit" from stew-mac. I have some woodworking experience. As well as some tools; table saw, router with table, coping saw, trim saw, saws-all, hammer, chisels and a shop-vac. I recently received a copy of the stew-mac catalog and I was surprised by all the different tools / jigs / supplies for people building instruments. What tools / supplies should I purchase before my first build? Thank You

Author:	Andy Zimmerman [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:16 pm ]
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I started with the stew mac kit and got a lot of what they recommended. It was a good place to start. You can get this list by opening up the instuction manual that is on there web site. Jigs come later. The kit is pretty good without jigs. You need them when you make one from scratch. It is always good to have a good set of chisels etc. There are a few guitar specific tools that you will need. Especially for nut slotting etc If you have any questions about the items on their list let us know. Some of it you won't need Andy

Author:	Iplaytheoldies [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:38 pm ]
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We are in the same boat....I've been researching for about 3-4 years, tooling up for the last two. I've read some great books and been on alot of sites. I work full-time, I'm married, and I have a 3 year old. So naturally I'm on a tight budget. I have decided to go from scratch the first time through which I'll probably regret when the end results are in, but what the hell! Maybe we could keep in touch, help each other out as we figure out what Not to do, and give each other some cheap pointers to ease the pain. All in all I'm sure We'll have a great first run and become more addicted than we already are.

Author:	BlueSpirit [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:49 pm ]
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I think probably one of the most important tools is a journal of day to day activity while building, with pictures, if possible. When cutting and assembling a guitar, there are so many different things that you do, that I personally forgot a lot of it when I went to my 2nd & 3rd. I had lost the plans I was working with during the 1st one, and wished I had found this forum sooner, where I read about a journal. A journal also keeps things in perspective and allows you to review and see what you did wrong and most importantly what you did right. Positive feedback is a great motivater.

Author:	Mattia Valente [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:34 pm ]
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You'll need a couple of basic tools, a block plane's nice to have, few rasps, chisel or two, a saw, y'know, the usual. I'd reccomend making radius dishes (google 'making radius dish', and search past posts here and various discussions in the MIMF library for pictures of jigs), or buying 'em since shipping doesn't cost you a million dollars (them's heavy), make a go-bar deck (cheapest clamping system you'll ever use; I'm in the 'put a sturdy shelf up' school, none of this fancy-pants Stew-Mac style deck, which I simply don't have the room for, and access from 3 sides is enough). Other than that, my best advice re: tools: Start building. Buy tools as you decide you need them. DO NOT try to outfit your workshop with hundreds of dollars worth of stuff you may or may not use. Honestly, I don't even have all the tools listed in StewMac's isntructions, and I get by just fine, thanks.

Author:	Alain Desforges [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:32 am ]
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Brent, like the guys say, just start building and you'll figure what you need as you go along. If you were to believe the Stew-Mac catalog, you'd end up with over a grand of tools you don't really need... Keep your tooling simple (unless you have a good quantity of disposable income)... When you get to a step in building process that you're not too sure of, study the problem, ask questions here, ans then you'll be able to decide what's the most cost efficient solution. Like Doug says, a journal is an excellent idea, although when you make a major blunder, you'll remember it forever... The most time saving and efficient tool in my shop is probably my go-bar deck. I made mine with plywood, and some threaded rod for under 30$. I can send you pics if you want. I used fiberglass rods for domed tents ( I had these lying around the shop) for the actual go-bars. Hope this helps.

Author:	doctapayne [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:39 am ]
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Thanks for the replies.... Andy - Thank you for the information regarding what Stew-Mac recommends for tools. Iplaytheoldies - thanks for the vote of confidence. I plan on postng the process as much as possible, so let's keep in touch regarding our first builds. Doug - Great advice. I never considered keeping a journal but it makes sense. Thank you. Mattia - Thanks for the tip on the radius dishes and the go-bar deck. After calculating the cost of buying all the tools that Stew-Mac recommends I am reconsidering my decision to purchase tools prior to the build. Can you provide descriptions of the types of block plane, rasps, chisels and saw that you would recommend? Alain - Thank you for the advice. I would appreciate pictures of your go-bar deck. Although I'm not sure I will need it for the "kit" build. But I would like to have an idea of how to build one so I can begin getting the materials together. As for the disposable income......not so much.javascript:AddSmileyIcon('') I sat down yesterday evening and added up the cost of the kit and all the recommended tools from stew-mac that I don't have and it came to about $1450.00....that's a lot of bread. $1030.00 was the total of the tools and $420.00 for the kit. I did anticipate the first build to cost a bit more due to the tooling side of things but I will have to approach this in as cost effective manner as possible. I'm as excited as ever with the anticipation of building a guitar. If anyone else has any advice regarding "tools for my first build" ..... please send them along. Thanks, Dr. P.

Author:	letseatpaste [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:40 am ]
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What won't be a waste of money is investing in good quality measuring tools. A good set of scales, a 24" straightedge, and a set of engineering squares. I got these from Woodcraft, and I keep them close to the bench because I reach for them all the time. Here's what I got if that helps: Engineer's Squares (I got the set of 3) Rules and Straightedge (I got the 3-set, 6", 12" and 24")

Author:	Alain Desforges [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:08 am ]
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... That's extremely good advice there Jon. A good micrometer will help too...

Author:	letseatpaste [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:24 am ]
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That's right, I also meant to mention the calipers... The digital ones from Harbor Freight are on sale often for a good price and they do just great.

Author:	Mattia Valente [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:31 am ]
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A go-bar deck is simple; I use my desk, but just go to StewMac's website and look at the pictures/instructions in the free info section for some ideas. Intothewind.com (kite supply place) has good deals on fibreglass rods (3/16" diameter is good) and matching rubber tips. I second the 'good straightedge' reccomendation. I've never owned a 'regular' caliper or a micrometer, but I do have a dial caliper (got mine from Axminster, I'm sure there must be a cheap US source for the things) that I mounted in a little frame, letting me accurately measure the thickness of the various plates, at any point. Accurate measurement and a good reference straight edge or four are very useful. For saws, I'd look at a few japanese-style ones. Doesn't have to be terribly fancy, but a nice fine kerf dovetail/backed saw is always useful, and I've got a big 'ol crosscut and rip saw (exchangable blades) for fret slotting and general work. The little saw is the most useful, overall. Japanese saws cut on a pull stroke, but I find them easier to use, more controllable, and I'm more accurate with them. For block planes, the new UK-made Stanleys are OK, but you might want to keep an eye on eBay for old planes, although it's a bit tricky unless you know what you're looking for. Google 'Stanley blood and gore' for a rundown of various plane types and what to look for in a plane. Lee Valley's Veritas line gets excellent reviews, and I've been eyeing the apron plane for a while now. Lie Nielsen if you've got a lot of money and don't want to spend time tuning the plane before using it. One thing I forgot: you might want a #4 1/2 or #5 plane for jointing tops and backs. I've got an old Stanley-Bailey, early part of the 20th century (pre WW II) that I got for 50 bucks on eBay. As far as rasps go, I've got a 'standard' Sandvik half-round that gets used a lot, a Japanese hacksaw rasp, and a microplane rasp, all good tools. For chisels, I quite like Two Cherries (Kirschen), German-made. Don't buy a set, just buy the ones you think you'll use most. For me, that's been the 1/8" (detail work), the 1/4" and the 1/2". Considering a 3/8" to fill the gap there, but those will do. Oh, and the thing I keep forgetting: clamps. You'll want clamps. The go-bars will do for almost all the box assembly stuff (braces, top and back to rims), but some clamps for fingerboards, headstock veneers, that sort of thing are great. I love wooden cam clamps (easy on, easy off, lightweight, enough pressure but not so much as to crush what you're clamping), personally. Oh, and head to your local office supply place and get a few boxes of binder clips to glue in kerfed lining. Works a treat.Mattia Valente38734.5650115741

Author:	Brock Poling [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:36 am ]
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[QUOTE=doctapayne] Thanks for the replies.... I sat down yesterday evening and added up the cost of the kit and all the recommended tools from stew-mac that I don't have and it came to about $1450.00....that's a lot of bread. $1030.00 was the total of the tools and $420.00 for the kit. [/QUOTE] And that probably doesn't include putting any finish on that guitar either. This is an expensive pursuit for sure. You could just skip it all and go buy yourself the MOST expensive guitar you can think of and save yourself a boatload of money.

Author:	Alain Desforges [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:34 am ]
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Indeed, guitar building has gotten a hold of me like nothing else ever (and this from someone with a compulsive, addictive personality)... Guitar building RULES!

Author:	Serge Poirier [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:37 am ]
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I'll second Alain, If i look back 9 months ago, i could have bought me some expensive Martin guitar. But i don't regret a single minute the choice i made of building, Learning is way more expensive at first but is going to stay with me forever and might pay off one day as well! Good luck! Serge

Author:	Mattia Valente [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:17 am ]
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[QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=doctapayne] Thanks for the replies.... I sat down yesterday evening and added up the cost of the kit and all the recommended tools from stew-mac that I don't have and it came to about $1450.00....that's a lot of bread. $1030.00 was the total of the tools and $420.00 for the kit. [/QUOTE] And that probably doesn't include putting any finish on that guitar either. This is an expensive pursuit for sure. You could just skip it all and go buy yourself the MOST expensive guitar you can think of and save yourself a boatload of money. [/QUOTE] Yes, but where's the fun in that? Besides, once you're relatively well tooled up, the cost per isntrument drops. That is, if we pretend none of us want bigger, better tools once we get even a little bit of extra disposable income. Ahem.

Author:	Wayne Clark [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:18 am ]
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All I can add is to just jump into the process of building without waiting to get all the 'right' tools for the job. You will be surprised how much you can actually accomplish with the tools you already have. There are probably only a few tasks that absolutely require a special tool. You will also find that you don't need all the recommended tools at the start, but can order them as you go along. For example, at the beginning you could get by with a handplane, a scraper, a chisel or two, a handsaw and a coping saw. Add a few clamps and you can the neck shaped and the box built. While you are doing all that you will have plenty of time to order a few of the more specialized tools.

Author:	LarryH [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:47 pm ]
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[QUOTE=WayneC] All I can add is to just jump into the process of building without waiting to get all the 'right' tools for the job. You will be surprised how much you can actually accomplish with the tools you already have. There are probably only a few tasks that absolutely require a special tool. You will also find that you don't need all the recommended tools at the start, but can order them as you go along. For example, at the beginning you could get by with a handplane, a scraper, a chisel or two, a handsaw and a coping saw. Add a few clamps and you can the neck shaped and the box built. While you are doing all that you will have plenty of time to order a few of the more specialized tools. [/QUOTE] I agree, the most important thing is to start!! I began with a bit of knowledge and very few tools and a Martin Kit. The results far exceeded my expectations (keep your expectaions low and this part is easy) and I have now acquired just a couple of specialty tools and clamps and will keep my builds simple for now (still building from kits which is plenty of challenge for me) until I acquire more tools and the most important skill of all - TIME and PATIENCE!! Time and patience, to me, is the one skill you need more than any other item in your tool box. Best of all it's free, and so is the advice from this forum which you will also find to be an indespensible tool. Good luck and keep us posted on any progress. Larry

Author:	Brock Poling [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:54 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Mattia Valente] [QUOTE=Brock Poling] [QUOTE=doctapayne] Thanks for the replies.... I sat down yesterday evening and added up the cost of the kit and all the recommended tools from stew-mac that I don't have and it came to about $1450.00....that's a lot of bread. $1030.00 was the total of the tools and $420.00 for the kit. [/QUOTE] And that probably doesn't include putting any finish on that guitar either. This is an expensive pursuit for sure. You could just skip it all and go buy yourself the MOST expensive guitar you can think of and save yourself a boatload of money. [/QUOTE] Yes, but where's the fun in that? Besides, once you're relatively well tooled up, the cost per isntrument drops. That is, if we pretend none of us want bigger, better tools once we get even a little bit of extra disposable income. Ahem.[/QUOTE] I was gonna say... and then the wood bug bites you and the next thing you know you have enough to build a factory load of guitars because: A) you got a good price on the sets... so why not. B) They were just TOO pretty to ever let get away... one of those rare "once in a lifetime opportunities" that seem to be constantly taunting us. C) In time this wood will be REALLY valuable, so you better stock up now... And then all your money is gone. Of course you know I am just kidding.... I wouldn't trade building for anything... but in all seriousness I could have EASILY bought a Traugott for what I have invested in tools, wood, training and facilities.

Author:	Serge Poirier [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:26 pm ]
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Ironicly Brock, i just told a co-worker today to not let that wood bug bite, that once bitten, there was no turning back. He kind of agreed by saying that he never thought i would be patient enough in my beginning to last long. Well on one point, he was right, i'm not a patient person and lutherie helps me acquire that. On the other hand, he misjudged my tenacity and resourcefulness. Go for it Dr P. Serge Poirier38734.9358680556

Author:	crowduck [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:29 pm ]
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Some of those expensive luthier supply store tools can be made lots cheaper, look in the 'Guitar Jigs' link at the top of this page. You will learn alot of building theory by making some of your own tools, and it's fun too. There are some other cheap substitutes for the pricey tools. Dan Erlewine on one of his fretting videos shows how to make an inexpensive straightedge by using a draftsmans 'T-Square'. Got mine from a local art/stationary store, 36" about $14, cut the top of the 'T' off, and you've got a nice straightedge. Get the kind has the wood middle with transparent plexi edges, then you can notch one side over the frets to measure relief and neck bow. If you leave some of the straighedge below the 'T' when you cut it off, you will have a nice 'square-edge', just trim off some of the 'wings' at the top of the 'T'. CrowDuck

Author:	doctapayne [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:16 am ]
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Thank you everyone! I am inspired by the posts to get started. As a small business owner I can relate to the "making do with what you have" theory. In fact when I look back on where our business started a few years back and where we are today I realize that you have to start somewhere or you'll never start. Sometimes it's easy to lose site of this. Life will always provide excuses. My copy of the "Guitarmaking Tradition & Technology" by Cumpiano and Natelson arrived yesterday. Thanks to everyone who recommended this book in my previous posts. From what I've read so far I think it's perfect for where I am and I'm certain it will provide a great reference during my builds. Please continue to post any ideas or thoughts on "tools for my first build" ....... Thanks! Dr. P

Author:	Wayne Clark [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:08 am ]
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Dr. P The Cumpiano book is a good one, and serves as one of my most used reference books. I would also recommend Robbie O'brien's DVD on building a steel string guitar. I found it very useful to see a picture of various operations where the Cumpiano book explained it in text. You can find it here.

Author:	Alain Desforges [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:30 am ]
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Mattia wrote: 'That is, if we pretend none of us want bigger, better tools once we get even a little bit of extra disposable income. Ahem. ' Ah yes... the infamous upgradeitus disease... I'm afraid that one is very contagious!

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