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i apologize if my format is wrong but i am brand new to the forum. can anyone tell me an easy way to prepare wood to be joined. for example, i am trying to sand two pieces of spruce so i can join them together to make a guitar top. i cant seem to get them to match and connect. i always seem to have a gap somewhere in the wood. please keep in mind that i am a rookie when it comes to guitar building so i dont have to many fancy tools. thanks to anyone who can help. brandon.

Brandon, the best way without joining tools would be to "shoot" the tops edges... That means you would have to get a board with a perfectly straight edge,then clamp the edge of the top to it an run a hand plane or fine sandpaper on a block and cut/sand till you can match the perfect straight edge of the board to the top.. do the same on the other side and you should be pretty close Then if you are only a few thousands away you can clamp away most of it when you glue it together.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

ok great. thanks alot for the help peter, i will give that a shot. i just found this site and i can already see it is going to be a big help. thanks again, brandon.

It just takes practice. Hang in there.   

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Remember that if at anyone of the ends you don' have a perfect fit you can always use that side for the soundhole and that the fingerboard extension will also cover part of it! peterm38737.8982407407

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

Here's how I did my first top:

I found a 2-foot by 3?-foot slab of black granite countertop at a garage sale for $4 and an old plane for $6. After cleaning up the plane, sharpening the blade and tuning it up, I clamped the top pieces face-to-face together on top of a clean board on the granite, with the edges to be joined sticking over the edge of the supporting board.

After adjusting the plane to take an absolutely minimum cut (I was shaving fuzz at first) I lay the plane on its side on the granite and started shooting the joint. Eventually, when I was shaving clean curls from the whole length and the edges of both boards were cleaned up, I removed the boards and candled them.

Perfect joint first try.

The nice thing about this method is that even if your planed surfaces aren't perfectly square, when you unfold the bookmatch any slight out-of-square angle will cancel itself out.

You could probably do this as well using your kitchen countertop, unless you're married and want to stay that way.

Whatever method you use, have fun!

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D..

what was the size (inch wise) of the plane that you were using??? i have a couple but the largest one is i think about 6 inches on the surface area.

And- for shoots as short as typical tops and sides a big old jointer plane isn't necessary. I did my first recent top and back with a simple shooting board and a 5 1/4 jack plane(Hock blade:razor sharp) I think Mario would chime in here and point out that no gap is acceptable and especially that clamping pressure cannot cure the weakness of gaps in the joint. If your top halves are wide enough, practice on the outside edges. It does take some feel even with a steady shooting board(make sure the pair returns to the exact same position on your shooting board(or guide edge) and vary the pressure on the plane as necessary to even out the join. I really like sticking with hand tools for these kinds of preparation tasks and I am still stubbornly thicknessing with planes and scrapers. Mt shooting board is really simple and I could post a photo if it would help. Best regards,

please post a picture if you can mike. i am having a hard time following what you guys mean on some parts. i think i get it for the most part though.

Welcome, Brandon
Some folks here don't like sanding to achieve the joint, but it worked well for me. I put a strip of sandpaper on top of my table saw, taped the two top halves together, used the fence as a vertical edge and sanded back and forth. Got a good joint. Many of these more experienced guys say that a planed joint glues better than a sanded joint, but I believe mine is plenty strong. Time will tell.

Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Welcome here Brandon,

Please don't be intimidated by my senior member position cuz i'm also a rookie

For your question, wait a little longer as the answers arrive, you will have plenty to choose from and forge your opinion to make the final enlightened decision.

My 0.02 cents worth

Serge

I had trouble with my first couple of tops as well. I tried to get it right with the plane but, at one point decided to try a sanded joint.

I placed a piece of self stick 120 grit on the garage floor in what I thought was a nice flat spot. I then sanded along the paper and ended up with a good edge.

That said,I believe that planing to achieve a good joint is the best way but, in the begining you sometimes need to choose what mountain you want to die on.

Hi Brandon.. I had trouble with the sanding method too. I used an old aluminum table saw fence and glued sandpaper to it, but then realized that I couldn't get the joint to candle because the fence wasn't absolutely straight. I ended up using a spiral cutter bit on my router table with a jointer-style fence setup, and that worked much better for me. If you don't have a router table I'd say your best bet is with the shooting board method.    

Here's my simple shooting board setup. The tops I'm joining are stacked on top of a spare rosewood back set, I could have used plywood for that matter.


It takes a little practice learning the plane technique. I'm using a #4-1/2 smoother, I'm sure it'd be easier with a little bit longer plane. It's worked fine this way, so far, nice tight joints.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Karl, is it possible to use a bit and bearing following a straight piece on the router table to achieve this ?

I just went downstairs and set up the shooting board and took digital pictures but I do notknow how to attach to a post on this forum. Maybe someone will tell me. jetobey@msn.com

Brandon, you might want to consider getting a larger plane than your 6" long (block?) plane for this. The smallest hand plane I would be comfortable joining plates with would be a #4 (9" long) smoothing plane; some heft and sole length is good. You can get a good one inexpensively from one of the reputable used tool sellers online. Even more importantly; keep it razor sharp! I hold my plates against some stops on my shooting board with one hand and plane away with the other so I can check my progress quickly, the whole operation is done in minutes.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Miketobey] I just went downstairs and set up the shooting board and took digital pictures but I do notknow how to attach to a post on this forum. Maybe someone will tell me. jetobey@msn.com[/QUOTE]

First reduce your picks to the requested dimensions (do not remember exactly but 150 k should work, 480 x 480 pixels?) click on the image upload button (the second from right to left) and add the picture. A few seconds and your post will be complete.
Quite easy nah?

I wouldn't sand the surfaces; it's well known that a perfectly and planed joint is much more affordable than a sanded one.
Luigi
ggdelazzer38738.6681597222

Has anyone here ever prepare the top plates with a laminate trimmer, a flush cut bit and bearing, would it make a good joint?

Serge

Nothing better than a single, straight plane shot. Check the light between the two halves with a lamp or in front of a window, you'll see the difference.
Luigi

Thanks Luigi, i asked this because i don't have any planes and was a bit nervous of using them, since i already have a trimmer and accessories, i thought that maybe it was feasible to do it that way that way, what are your thoughts on that my brother ?

Serge

I like the MISS rule Serge: make it simple, sir (translation from italian isn't so striking). Try both ways and choose the one you like better. You can find hand planes for the same price you pay for a medium quality drill bit. Look for used ones if you want to save a few bucks; you'll like hand planes and will probably need soon more than one.
Cheers - Luigi

Aweright Luigi Bro, i'll check into that as well or might buy me a 6" jointer edger to do this a la Mario style! He has a bigger one though

Thanks for your input

Serge

Well, I tried but all my photos are stored as jpeg and I don't know how to convert to pdf without spending $649 for Adobe photoshop. My shooting board is a piece of 3/4 x 8" x 24" piece of maple. A long edge and a short edge are squared to very accurate 90 degrees. Along the trued long edge is a piece of 3/4" x 3/4" maple which is glued about 7/16" proud of the surface. Two 1/8" holes are drilled at each end about 1 1/2" in from the raised lip and about 2" in from the short ends. The bookmatch is given a basic jointing along the opposite edges from the intended center line. That edge is then registered firmly against the raised lip, clamped to the board and a corresponding pair of 1/8" holes are drilled through the top halves so that pins in this waste area keep consistent replacement of the pair as the top halves are removed and replaced for progress checks. The whole "shootin' match" is clamped to my very flat bench top and a really sharp plane-the longer the better- is laid on its side,toe registered firmly to the stacked and pinned halves,set for the lightest cut possible and the plane is guided with consistent pressure along the length of the edges. The first pass or two may produce just a little bit of spruce dust. The plane iron is advanced just ever so slightly and a couple more passes are taken. Usually gets more dust and an occasional tiny curl,often from just one of the paired edges. The iron is again advanced a tiny bit-these passes start to produce significant curls. After the first pass I get that starts to look like two similar nearly full length curls, I remove the top pieces,open the book and check gaps with strong backlight. Lightly mark high spots with pencil, replace and re-pin[pins have smoothly champfered ends] and shoot the plane along,slightly increasing pressure on the plane against the edges at the marked high spots. Repeat until there are NO gaps or your dreadnought becomes that parlor guitar you thought you might build someday. Because I happen to have one I now use a very ugly but very sharp #606 Stanley. The 5 1/4 I mentioned is about 10" long,belonged to my Dad and did a good job and really ,I think any plane from what would be comparable to #3 on up will do the job. Consistent registering the toe at the start of the shoot and letting your hand feel the cuts is the key as long as you can always return the top halves to the exact! same position between inspections. Sorry this is so long/picture 1000 words and so on.I do have to say that I do not think I am the only one out here who feels some real satisfaction from producing those two parellel .002 curls the full length of the plates-PPPlease tell me I'm not the only stubborn old fart hand tool guy out here.