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Fret Gouging Questions
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4690		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ATaylor [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:38 am ]
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It's funny posting to this forum. I know by this evening I'll have a slew of sage advice for my questions. How did luthiers survive before OLF?!

Anywho, I have a problem with my first (and only) build: it's a stewmac 000 kit. I strung it with "earthwood" string recommended by a local guitar shop. I don't like them - way too much finger-slide noise for me. To top that off, I think the roughness of the string (or the metal composition) has gouged my frets, specifically the 2,3 & 4 frets around my E and A strings. I'm not a gorilla-style and I've never seen this on any of my other guitars. PICs below:

So my questions:
- Could strings gouge frets that quickly (I've had these string on since Christmas)? Recently someone told me that Earthwood is an 80/20 bronze/nickel vs all bronze?

- What fret rounding file do you use? There are quite a few available between LMI and Stewmac. I'm defnintely going to need one! What's your favorite?

Thanks in advance! Alan

ATaylor38740.8234143518
Author:  tippie53 [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:45 am ]
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I doubt that the stings could gouge anything that fast. Without seeing what you are looking at It will be very hard to see what is wrong
john hall
Author:  Evan Gluck [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:48 am ]
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Hi Alan, it sounds as if it may have been caused by some unintentional impact, that is a strange spot to have wear show up particularly this quickly. Rather than leveling and recrowning the frets perhaps a partial refret would be less invasive to the other frets. As for the rounding file I love the Stew Mac curved diamond file, it is not cheap but after using lots of others I am in love with this one.
Hope this helps, Evan
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:56 am ]
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Alan,
from the looks of your pictures... the strings didn't do that damage. It looks to me like the guitar was either struck by something with a sharp edge or fell and struck something sharp that created the gouges. Stewmac's diamond , rounded , with curved ends are my favorite but they are a little expensive.
Author:  ATaylor [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:26 pm ]
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The impact theory could be accurate - I do have a 2 year-old girl and a 4 year-old boy!

And I'm thinking a refret is more apt than level and crown...ATaylor38740.8520717593
Author:  Evan Gluck [ Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:43 pm ]
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Well my vast experience tells me your frets were hit by a 4 year old boy swinging a 2 year old girl I see it almost every week, you should see what a 6 year old can do Anyway I would definitely go with the refret.
Evan
Author:  csullivan [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:56 am ]
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You might also check your fret material. Unless it's the photo coloring
that's off, the frets look a little brassy. How soft are they? It'd be a shame
to go through the refretting process, only to have it reappear in a few
weeks.
Craig
Author:  ATaylor [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:17 am ]
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It came with the stewmac 000 kit so I'm going to assume it's they're standard 18% nickel silver fretwire(probably the bronze strings close by throwing the off-color). Just took a look at my Earthwood (by Ernie Ball) and it's an 80/20 bronze alloy. Whatever the case, I'm done with the Earthwood brand strings.
Author:  Todd Rose [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:37 am ]
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Maybe a silly question, but do those fret dents affect the playing? It looks like they're not directly under any strings; if you don't bend notes on the bass strings in that position, maybe there's no problem. I only raise the question because I know how easy it is to obsess about little cosmetic things and think, "I gotta fix this!" when it might be better to remember, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Author:  CarltonM [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:43 am ]
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Alan,

I don't think it's the strings. They have to be an alloy--pure bronze would be too soft to be practical. I'm inclined to agree with others that the damage came from another source, especially since string wear usually makes a rounded, polished valley.
Author:  ATaylor [ Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:19 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Todd Rose] Maybe a silly question, but do those fret dents affect the playing? It looks like they're not directly under any strings; if you don't bend notes on the bass strings in that position, maybe there's no problem. [/QUOTE]
Yes, I bend, quite a bit. You're right in they aren't directly under the string. When I bend, the strings scrape over the dents. Not pleasing. Looks like a refret for me!
Author:  Dave-SKG [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:37 am ]
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You may want to replace just those frets since it is fairly new? Stewmac has the same wire why do the whole thing over? You may not even need to re-level the whole fret board ( if your lucky)...maybe just the damaged ones will need a little filing and polishing and it's good as new!
Author:  Todd Rose [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:12 am ]
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[QUOTE=ATaylor]
Yes, I bend, quite a bit. You're right in they aren't directly under the string. When I bend, the strings scrape over the dents. Not pleasing. Looks like a refret for me![/QUOTE]

Gotcha, Alan. I hope you didn't feel insulted by my suggestion.
Author:  ATaylor [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:27 am ]
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[QUOTE=Todd Rose]

Gotcha, Alan. I hope you didn't feel insulted by my suggestion. [/QUOTE]
Oh geeze, not at all. Helpful suggestions ALL!
Author:  ATaylor [ Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:28 am ]
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[QUOTE=Dave-SKG] You may want to replace just those frets since it is fairly new? Stewmac has the same wire why do the whole thing over? You may not even need to re-level the whole fret board ( if your lucky)...maybe just the damaged ones will need a little filing and polishing and it's good as new! [/QUOTE]
Yep, I think you're right. I also think I have enough fretwire left over for the three most affected. Thanks.
Author:  ATaylor [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:16 pm ]
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All:
Just wanted to let you know that your advice on my fret problem was invaluable. I went ahead and replaced 5 frets(and my share of ebony chips) and my 1st build is back to new. I'd post pics of the results but I'm too busy playing it to take pics!
Thanks again for your input guys!ATaylor38748.8960185185
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:22 pm ]
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Another success story, right here on your "Global" OLF.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:10 am ]
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alan, did you heat your frets before pulling them. it goes a long way to help prevent the chipping.
Author:  ATaylor [ Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:08 am ]
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[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] alan, did you heat your frets before pulling them. it goes a long way to help prevent the chipping. [/QUOTE]
Yes, did. Probably not nearly enough. Also used two old chisels opposed to each other to work the frets out (don't have a pair of flush cut end-nippers yet). First came out nice, second so-so, third chipped like mad then I had my groove down - fourth and fifth came out clean. Learn learn learn.
Author:  crazymanmichael [ Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:54 am ]
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you needn't spend the $25 or so the big supply houses charge for fret pullers. go to advance auto and get a pair of end cutters for $.99 and grind them flush on your sander. buy a couple in case you bugger one up. takes only a few minutes.

you shouldn't lever up the fret; that will almost always result in chipping.

rather, starting at the fret end further from you, apply the soldering iron to heat the fret, place the puller jaws either side of the heated section of the fret, push down on the puller to hold the wood down whilst squeezing the puller. the wedge shape of the jaw edges lifts the fret. slide the soldering iron and the tool along about half the blade width, heat the fret, press down and squeeze again, and so on.

with older or more brittle boards a tiny bit of water applied with a glue pipette or fine sringe along both edges of the fret will also act to soften the wood and help avoid chipping.

but alas, with some boards it seems they are inevitable.
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