Official Luthiers Forum!

I couldn't pass this one up at our local flea market.It's
a Stanley/Baily 5 1/2- 15"
It was in pretty bad shape,rusty,dirty, and the sole is pitted.I hope I can get it level and working good. The blade is pitted and bent so I need a new one. Any sources out there for a good blade?

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Good find. Bet it will clean up really well.

Ron Hock at hocktools.com has top notch irons.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Woodcraft carries Hock replacement blades, or you can order direct from Hock himself. I use a belt sander to level the sole, followed by finer grades of sandpaper glued to plate glass until it's shiney and smooth. Here's a link to Hock.

http://www.hocktools.com/

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

Thanks guys, The belt sander first sounds like a good idea...quickerer!

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Belt sander, Yikes!

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Lie-Nielsen also sells top quality replacement blades. I have both Lie-
Nielsen and Hock blades on my old planes - you can't go wrong with either.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=512

Bruce: You don't like that idea eh? I don't know,never tried it yet. Seems good to get started....no?

Dave: Thanks , I know either Lie-N. or Hock won't be cheap but will be top quality.

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Dave,

When leveling with the belt sander depending on how pitted the sole is choose choose an appropriate grit belt, but you don't have to get absolutely all the pitting out, just get the bottom flat. Using a felt tip marker pen draw some witness lines crosshatched across the entire sole. Oh yes, of course remove the blade, chip breaker, and cap. Try to apply even pressure, and move the plane around in a circular or figure 8 pattern across the sander. Don't sand for too long a time as the plane gets really hot, so stop every 30 seconds or so to let it cool off, and be carefull not to touch the sole, as it will burn you. Keep up the sessions until the witness lines disappear. If you don't get it done, or finish, don't leave the plane out. Apply a coating of car wax or something to seal the pores, or it will corrode Really Fast. When it's nice and flat, proceed to the sandpaper on plate glass until it's as smooth as you like it. You should also use some sandpaper or file and chamfer the sharp edges created by the process. When you get the rest of the plane cleaned up, give it a coat of shellac, and wax the sole lightly. There's a video available at Fine Woodworking from Taunton Press, Reclaiming Flea Market Planes that shows the whole process.
www.finewoodworking.com

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

[QUOTE=crowduck] Oh yes, of course remove the blade, chip breaker, and cap. [/QUOTE]

No, don't! The plane needs to be at the same weight and tension when lapping as it will be in use. If you flatten the bottom without the hardware, it might well distort when you put it all back in. It's what I've read in multiple sources, and it's my personal experience, as well. DO make sure the blade is pulled up out of the way, though! Good luck!

Japan Woodworker is also a source for Hock blades.

others beat me to it so i will just second their comments about leveling the sole with the blade tension on and the warning about cr wax.

Chris,Carlton,Michael,Michael,- Thanks a lot guys, it all sounds like excellant advice. I know the dangers of silicone with wood finishes and the fine woodworking video sounds good !

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

Other issue: if you plan on using this for jointing, jig something up to keep the bottom SQUARE to the sides.

I love this plane! It is my favorite for thicknessing spruce plates; it has just the right heft. If you order a new cutter for it, make sure you get the right size which is 2 1/4" until 1939, 2 3/8" from then on (yes, I used Google!). It is the only Stanley model with this size cutter, but Hock makes the right replacements, at least he used to. Your cutter looks like it still has some meat left though.

I also flatten badly pitted or worn soles on metallic planes on the belt sander before lapping. Leave everything in place with cutter retracted like everybody said, and BE CAREFUL! The casting is actually quite soft, and it does not take much effort to remove a lot of material on a belt sander.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I shopped around last year when I needed a couple sets of Hock blades and chip breakers, and I found everything a few dollars cheaper at www.craftsmanstudio.com

Maybe it's just me , but I have found belt sanders , and indeed the plate glass method to course a hump in the middle. Even when I'm trying to not favour any form of rocking with my strokes. I think it has something to do with the debri coming off the front or rear section (depending on push or pull stroke ), which sheilds the middle section from being cut

I have found the only way to get really flat is to cause a hollow in the middle , and then carefully level ( with the plate glass method ) until the ends reach level with the middle. Then STOP. As any further work will round the ends.

As I say , maybe it's just me. Has anyone else found this to be the case ? I'm really fussy about "flat "

I have read with interest , that there are those who don't think absolute "flat " is required on a plane sole

KiwiCraig

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CRAIG LAWRENCE of AUSTRALIA
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Hi Craig, I have had that happen, and I think it was because I applied uneven pressure. I use a straight edge to check my progress constantly when I use the belt sander, and I can avoid it from happening if I don't press down the edge that the abrasive belt hits first, but rather hold on to the rear and middle of the plane. Same thing when you use the abrasive paper on glass.

Indeed, the whole Asian school of planing believes that only the toe, mouth and heel of the sole of the plane should be in contact with the surface, at least on the longer planes. This is to minimize friction, and as I understand it they scrape the sole between these points lightly to create the hollow.

When a plane (any plane) is worn, you usually get a low spot immediately in front of the mouth. This is not desirable, it should be in line with toe and heel for best possible performance; in my experience this is usually the area you will have to level the rest of the sole to when you restore an old plane.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I did work on the blade some but it is bent and pitted quite badly so I'll get a new one.Tried to straighten it but couldn't get it just right . I guess I should get a chip breaker while I'm at it.

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

The 5 1/2 is one of my favorite sizes.
If you flatten with a belt sander do NOT let too much (less than you think)
heat build up or you'll do more damage than good. I use psa roll paper 120
grit stuck down to a machine top (jointer, saw etc.) to flatten mine. No need
to get all the rust pits out, just flat. All the talk of wax in the pores is a
bunch of hooey. Give a quick spray with "top cote" and it'll silde along like
silk.
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

The sander just seems a bit drastic. I like what Charles suggested a lot.

Charles, clue us in on what Top Cote is? Wax?

Dave, you got it looking pretty nice. I've never seen a blade like that bent, can't tell from the photo. Doesn't sharpening flatten the edge that you are cutting with? Let us know how she cuts when you get it together.

I know what Hooahhh is, what's hooey?

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http://www.dickeyguitars.com

Topcote is an aerosol lubricant to use on machine tops such as table saws,
jointers etc. Makes the wood slide more easily. No wax, silicone, etc to
interfere with finish. Made by Bostick, amazon, etc has it too. I just pick it up
at my local saw shop.
-C
Hooey is in the Baloney family

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

Does look good, but pitting on the flat side will prevent getting a good edge. You'd be much happier with a good one, which will likely be of a higher quality steel (particularly if this is a later plane), thicker too. You won't believe the difference.

Have fun!

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I'll chime in here, I've refurbished a number of planes, a sander doesn't have enough control to flatten the bottom and Chas is right, if it gets hot it's over.

Find a flat surface and glue sandpaper to that, use some oil to float out the metal and you'll be all set. I would not worry about pits, just get it flat, they won't effect anything.

For flat surfaces you can use 1/2" inch glass, a jointer table, or get a granite block made for that purpose (grizzly sells them cheap to be honest).

Also make sure that you keep the sides square, it's not hard to do, just take your time and don't expect it to be a quick process. I would order a good Hock blade for it as well, you won't regret that decision.

One other area that alot of people miss, make sure you check the frog area for lumps and flattness where the blade sits, if it's not square and flat use a small file and make it so. That way your blade will have a solid surface and will much less likley to chatter. It also makes tuning the plane MUCH MUCH easier..

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Several folks mentioned Hock irons, which are top-notch. However, I
don't think I saw anyone mention that you can certain try to find a
replacement vintage stanley iron. I see them on eBay from time to time,
and they're generally much less expensive than a new Hock.

Just a thought.

Jay

Chas: I'm going to use Topcote,Thanks
Bruce: I've decided to go with a Hock,even if it puts me in hock! I don't know if the bend would effect it . Its bent longways,like in half,make sense?Thanks
Pat: Thanks,A Hock it is
Paul:Thanks for the tips.I have a nice piece of float glass that is great!I would like to have one of those big granite blocks!
Jay: I didn't know you could get those, ThanksDaveAndy38751.6448726852

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Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755