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Tool Advice Sought...
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5574		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RichB [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:07 pm ]
Post subject: 

I am looking to get some tools at Stew-Mac and I'm not sure what to what extent I should go. I need a rosette cutter and the new Micro-Adjuster (#0676) one looks like the one to get. To utilize it, you also need to get their Base (#5260) that they have. However, there's an upgraded version of it available that has the dust blower(#5262) & the router guide attachment (#4324). Are these neccesary & worth the added cost, especially since I already have a PC 7310 Lam Trimmer for the bindings.

Also, I have a Dremel now, but it's a different Model. It's an older type, variable speed w/ push-buttons. I'm not sure if it's capable of mounting to their router base. There are no threads on it for screwing into something. Would I be better off just getting the newer Dremel 400XPR that's just one set speed, & know it will mount up to everything w/o any problems:

My Dremel: (excuse the pic, batteries are dying)


I also have a Foredom w/ shaft that's just gathering dust. Stew-Mac has a Foredom Custom Handpiece (#5332) that's made to thread into their router base....Or, is the Dremel Flex Shaft that comes w/ the Dremel Kit (#0391), it's equivalent?

Thanks...Rich
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rich, PC 7310 is the way to go since you already have it, i have both like you, but feel more confident about using the PC lam trim than the dremel, more stability IMHO, Lee Valley sells beautiful small straight bits with carbide tips , 1/4 shank, they have 1/16, 3/32/, 1/8 and 3/16 that you can use for rosette channels or for binding work.

SergeSerge Poirier38787.0379166667
Author:  RichB [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Serge...Which do you use for your rosette cutting? That's what I wanted the Dremel for. Or do you use the PC 7310 for slicing up your rosettes also? I am sold on the Porter C for binding channels. It's just that I've heard good things about the new Micro-adjustable jig for rosettes
Rich..
Author:  Martin Turner [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=RichB]


Also, I have a Dremel now, but it's a different Model. It's an older type, variable speed w/ push-buttons. I'm not sure if it's capable of mounting to their router base. There are no threads on it for screwing into something. Would I be better off just getting the newer Dremel 400XPR that's just one set speed, & know it will mount up to everything w/o any problems:



Thanks...Rich[/QUOTE]

Rich the Dremel in your photo appears to have the screw on collett required to fit into the Stewmac router attachment.

Can you post a close up pic of the front end of the tool?

Cheers Martin
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
pretty soon i'll be using the PC 7310 with the Jasper jig that Mike Tobey is so kind to send me, i think that Lee Valley sells them also. I'll be using those bits to route the rosette channels. Supposedly, the Jasper jig makes wonders in different diameter sizes and costs about $33.50 CAD, less in US dollars, check that link below, if the jasper jig does not appear, just do a search on their website for it, it's the first time i post a link and i'm not sure if it's gonna work.Woodworking section, router accessories, circle-cutters on their site

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=40970&cat=1,43 000

For slicing the rosettes though, i would have thought of using my bandsaw though

Serge
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
it works!
Author:  Martin Turner [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rich,

See pics below of my Dremel being fitted to Stewmac router attachment.

Cheers Martin





kiwigeo38787.0844560185
Author:  SimonF [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Without a doubt, the Foredom handpiece is the way to go. In my opinion,
Dremels are useful tools but they are simply not powerful enough nor
accurate enought regarding runout too be of much use. I had a new
Dremel XPR that was simply unable to do a good job routing the saddle
slot of a desert ironwood bridge.

The Foredom routes hardwoods with ease. It has a lot of torque and
doesn't bog down at all even when you take deep cuts in hardwoods. The
StewMac handpiece works is wonderful. I have the handpiece connected
to LMII's Roy Noble base and find the experience vastly superior to a
Dremel. If you have a Foredom, there is no reason to go with an inferior
product.

Author:  Colin S [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you've got a foredom just get the handset.

I've recently got a new Dremel 400XPR from SM and it does have variable speeds and so far in my testing has given me some superb results and very clean accurate cuts in spruce and WRC the job it was bought for. The bearings seem much better than on earlier models as is the power and runout was not measurable with a dial gauge.

For saddle slots and any hardwood cutting though a laminate trimmer is de riguer, why overstrain a tool for a job it wasn't designed for?

Colin
Author:  tippie53 [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I gave up on dremels a long time ago. I use the PC 7310 for binding and I use the stew mac rosette cutter with the die grinder ( 70,000 rpm ) and decimal end mills.
Not everyone has a large Air compressor but if you do they are worth the look see. Decimal mills are common to find at MSC Enco etc. The higher rpm gives very clean and precise cuts
john hall
Author:  Miketobey [ Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
For rosettes, wait until all of us hear from Serge with his 7310 and the Jasper jig I sent up to him.He'll be so excited he might not have to post for many of us to hear him shout "eureka!"( But, he'd better post so all of us can smile) If you have a Foredom you have the RR of small electric rotary tools. Get an accessory plunge base for it for inlay etc. Get John H's binding jig or CT Fleischman?Williams jig, swap over your 7310, get bearing/rabbet set of your choice(or as voted by the real vets here) and you will be well set. I built 90% of the F/W jig in about 5 hours(really less,I had to square up my "FIL"'s old table saw too)-bought a cradle from John,his usual smooth competent product, and if I can beat my previously whined about oil contamination problems I'll be binding this week. In sum, You have the three foundation needs in hand already.Good luck.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Rich if I read your questions right.

I believe Stewmac is only selling the updated base. you want the air inlet. It is a big help.

The dremel you have has really poor bearings in it. The runn out is natoriously bad. If you want to stay with Dremel get the new XP400 much better bearings. Foredom is really the best idea for a light weight system. there are advantages and dis advantages to light weight systems. But how ever you setup be sure you know if you have runout in you trimmer before cutting a top. If you do you will be fighting gaps in your rosettes for ever. and ther is no easy way to fix them.

I use the Foredom and love it, but I plan to update my drill press to one with a larger swing. When i do I will change over to a fly cutter on the drill press.
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:51 am ]
Post subject: 
[QUOTE=Miketobey] For rosettes, wait until all of us hear from Serge with his 7310 and the Jasper jig I sent up to him.He'll be so excited he might not have to post for many of us to hear him shout "eureka!"( But, he'd better post so all of us can smile) .[/QUOTE]

Mike,

I was just thinking of my reaction if everything goes smooth for my first rosette but you depicted it so well!
Being the kid that i am, it's quite hard not to jump from joy when you're so happy!

It's like that song :
Don't worry... be happy!Whew hew hew hew....Don't worry... be happy! Evrybody whistle now!
Author:  RichB [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Oh Oh...This is what I was afraid of , as I'm running around here w/ lots of different opinions. All good ones! The Jasper rig looks like it would work great, but you aren't able to see what its doing while it's cutting? Being a rookie, I'm not quite sure if that would be good for me.
So now, w/ all the input that I got from everyone here, this is probably the way I will go:

From Stew-Mac:
1. Foredom Custom Handpiece
2. Precision Mounting Base w/ duster
3. Micro-Adj Rosette Jig
4. Binding Router Bit Set

5. Binding Jig from J. Hall to go w/ the PC 7310 Lam Trimmer I already have

I can always get another Dremel, since mine is not worthy, & if I don't like the Foredom. Yes, the Foredom has more power, but doesn't the stiff cable pose a problem w/ mobility.

Martin...
Great Pics ~~ Thanks! Looking at mine, it would thread. But, it's as Michael said, "it has really poor bearings." Plus, it's been used extensively for years, compounding the problem.

You've all been a great help...Thanks!

[QUOTE=MichaelP] The runn out is natoriously bad. [/QUOTE]
Now, & escuse my naivete, but what is runout?....      
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Rich, if you read the whole page at Lee Valley, they say that you can see thru the jig,

Precision Circle Jig



With a radial pattern of 105 precision pivot holes, this innovative jig is ideal for accurately routing cut-outs, radii and mortises.
Originally designed for audio-speaker production, it is capable of cutting diameters from 1" to 7-1/2" in 1/16" increments and is calibrated for use with a 1/4" straight bit.

Designed to fit 19 different plunge router models*, the jig (constructed from 1/4" clear acrylic with silk-screened markings) comes complete with mounting hardware, instructions and pivot pin. An excellent product.

* This circle jigs fits: Porter-Cable 7539, 7529 & 690, DeWalt 621 & 625, all Sears, Ryobi and Makita plunge routers; Bosch 1613 & 1615, Freud FT2000E, Skil 1825 & 1823, Hitachi M8V, TR12 & M12V, Fein FT-1800 and Elu 177 routers.

               
               
Precision Circle Jig
46J91.03       $33.50 Cad

Just my last dime!      
               
constructed from 1/4" clear acrylic with silk-screened markings) comes complete with mounting Serge Poirier38787.7768055556
Author:  RichB [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Serge...

With all the info thrown by me, no, I did not see that is was 'Clear Acrylic'. I was just looking at the picture they show on the Lee Valley site. I do have a Sears Craftsman Router (older one-once again), and its' description says that it works w/ all Sears routers. For $33.50, it looks like a good thing to have around. Have you used yours yet, & if so, how do you like it.

Certainly more cost-effective, rather than all the Stew-Mac items I listed. If it indeed does work well, you just save me a couple of hundred $$. Then, I guess I owe you a beer or two.

My Router:
RichB38787.8065277778
Author:  Miketobey [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:17 am ]
Post subject: 
The silk screened markings don't allow you to see through. But, remember the rule;try on scrap first!!! As I previously said, I did my very first solo rosette with it and you can see the result in the thread on lam trimmers a few days ago. The large diameter of the base/jig gives smooth support when it is swung around the pivot pin. I don't remember if I closed my eyes when I turned it on in the neck area, but if I did , when I stopped it there and tiurned it off,lifted it up, there was this perfect depth routed rosette channel cut. I reset the pin and completed it and there it was-"Bob's your uncle."
Author:  Serge Poirier [ Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks Mike,

Rich, circle cutting, IMVHO, doesn't require you to spend hundreds of dollars, i think it's just a matter of having the best router you have well stabilized over a good jig that makes it revolve around a pin! The quality of the router and router bits will influence more on presence or absence of tear out!

BTW, save your beer money also and when we meet, i'll have a pepsi!    
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