Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm after a block plane, but before I head off into the fairs to look for one I'd like some opinions on blade angle. What do you guys find to be most useful the standard Stanley 9 1/2 standard angle of 21deg or the Stanley 60 1/2 low angle at 13.5deg.

I'm not interested in brand names as I prefer to buy vintage Stanley and Record planes at the fairs, I've recently sold my two Lie Neilson planes, and replaced them with vintage Record planes which I prefer. I like secondhand hand tools as I like the fact that someone has used and cared for them in the past. A bit like second hand books with notes in the margin.

So, 21deg or 13.5deg?


Colin
Colin S38802.3175694444

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I reach almost automatically for my low angle.The low angle is excellent on end grain and the preliminary shaping of softwood braces. I have an LV low-angle and an old SW Stanley 9 1/2. The 9 1/2 is well fettled and matches the LV in performance,but adjustment isn't as easy or precise. I have 5-6 Lie-Nielsens and 11 old Stanleys and several LV's.I,too,like planes that could "tell a story."

Hi Colin

I had a low angle but couldn't get on with it other than in softwoods, this could of course have been due to my inability to set it up as I had never done a low angle before.

I have a Standard Angle one that I like.

My favourite Plane is an Old Record No.5 that I rescued I don't know how they used to make the irons, but this one has an Iron that takes and holds an edge beautiflly (In fact I sharpen it sometimes, just on the basis it has been so long since I did it :)

I have a 2 year old Record no.4 and it is not a patch on the old one.

Stanley Low Angle 60 & 1/2 lapped at 25 degree, no micro, just a straight 25 degree bevel with a mirror polished to the back, quick strop, close up the throat, and watch the curls roll from the end grain of your hardest timber...sweet as.

Cheers

Kimlarkim38802.7090277778

Russel, vintage record planes are my very favourite, if you can get one from the 20s/30s with "Record Made in England Best Crucible Cast Tungsten Steel" on the blade you have the finest plane blade of all time. Penny bought me a 30's #4 for Christmas and after restoring it it is the finest plane I have ever had. I recently bought a spare blade for it from one of the UK dealers for ?35 which I thought was a bargain.

ColinColin S38802.371400463

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

HI Colin

That is exactly what it says on the blade of the no. 5

I like you am taken with the thought that they have a history.

I really like ny old Stanley 60 1/2, 65 too. They're the ones I use most. Cut so clean even on endgrain.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

60 1/2 is what I use, very happy with it.

Interesting that you mention you like secondhand tools for their history (I do too). It also works the other way. I bought a 50 or 60 year old Stanley/Bailey #5 in excellent condition on ebay, since it was close by where I work I went and picked it up. The old guy selling it had been given it on his 14th birthday and had really looked after it, he was getting too old to do much woodwork and figured some yuppy would buy it to put in a display case. He had a big grin on his face when I told him I was going to use it to build guitars, I guess you look after something for that long you want it to go to where it will be used and looked after.

Yeah, as Todd suggested, get the low-angle and two blades. It took me a while, but I finally realized I could do that with my L-N low-angle jack--got a second blade, but it's not honed yet. I expect it'll alleviate much frustration from shifting between hard and soft woods, as we do.

Very cool story there Paul, i hope he'll be able to see some of the work you've done with his plane too! That would make him grin even more!

Thanks Todd and everyone else for thier imput, the general concensus seems to be for the low angle, so that will be my priority. But if I see a standard angle one on someones table at a fair don't expect me to leave it there. Todd I still think I'll try for pre-war Record planes if I can find them, I just like the blades so much and like to feel their history in my hands. Great tip about the second blade by the way.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Hi Colin, my most used block plane is the #60 1/2 size but I also like the low angle Veritas apron plane a lot. Most of my planes are vintage Stanley.

HOWEVER everybody knows the best tool steel is Swedish and the best plane blades (and chisels for that matter) EVER were made by Erik Anton Berg of Eskilstuna!   Until you have tried one of these you don't really know the meaning of "sharp"!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Arnt] HOWEVER everybody knows the best tool steel is Swedish and the best plane blades (and chisels for that matter) EVER were made by Erik Anton Berg of Eskilstuna!   Until you have tried one of these you don't really know the meaning of "sharp"! [/QUOTE]

Yep, I got a few of the paring chisels from a swap meet for $5.00 each, absolutely beautiful, you can compass cut your way through any hardwood with unforced control, on dovetails they leave a crisp sharp shine on the pins that is not achievable with your run of the mill bench chisel.

Cheers

Kim   

Todd, I know what you are talking about; I have a set of new shiny Sorby paring chisels and I wish I didn't. You can't look at them cross eyed without the edges folding over! I also hunt the flea markets and antiques shops for rusty old tools and I have a nice collection of old Scandinavian chisels by different makers and varying quality theat I have brought back to life. The best ones are E.A Berg and Jernbolaget; I also like the Norwegian Kongsberg chisels. They are not always good, but when you do find a nice one boy...!

Eh, sorry for derailing your thread, Colin!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

It's Ok Arnt, I collect old chisels as well, good Sheffield steel of course, "Colonel" and "Hearnshaw - John Bull", are among my favourites, but I'm still looking for "The" definitive paring chisel. I've yet to find a modern day chisel take and hold an edge like old refurbished ones (I'm beginning to sound like my dad now!

I'm still looking for the block plane but I did buy a Record #5 SS today

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I agree completely with Arnt (it doesnt have anything to do with my sharing Trondheim as my families ancestral home )

My 60 1/2 I is so attuned to me (and I have tuned it) that I carry it in a holder on my belt at all times when in the shop.

I have alot of antique scandinavian tools and really like the swedish steel. Arnt and I must be related :)

While I have a range of vintage Stanley and Record planes and some with the crucible cast steel blades (great blades), the bench planes that to me are the best are the great English (and Scottish) infilled planes.

I shoot joints with a Norris that makes the work easy..It isnt just how collectable the infilled planes are, it is the mass...they glide through the cut and never chatter regardless of what I do. It took alot for me to be willing to pay what they are going for but I really think that they can be the ultimate planes. Norris, Spears, Preston, Mathieson all are great...the castings are superior, the fit just right. I tried the LN planes when they came out and they are gorgeous but to me they dont hold a candle to the great english toolhouses from 1870 to 1921.

Modern used planes I will upgrade the blade to a Hock blade but the English infill blades are stouter than the Hock and realy hold up well so I have left them as is. For the vintage stanley or record, if it is the older better blades such as the record crucible then I keep those as they dont get any better.

If I am not grabbing my 60 1/2 or an English bench plane then I have antique japanese planes that cut really nice but it takes alot more time and attention to keep them on par as a daily user.

Regarding 9 1/2 versus 60 1/2, I have both and both are well tuned but with the 60 1/2 I do not need a microbevel to get a great cut whereas the 9 1/2 it took alot more fussing and a microbevel for it to be as useful for me as the 60 1/2

Thanks for this Shawn, I've looked at a couple of Norris planes, and always wondered if I could justify the price. Next time I see a good one I won't question it, I'll just take out my wallet (as long as my wife isn't watching).

I've got 8 Record planes with the crucible cast tungsten steel blades, I never let one pass by without buying it. I very rarely have to sharpen them they just keep going. I shoot all my joints with a #5 record, I've got 4 now including one with the furrowed sole for resinous woods, which is great at thinning plates of rosewood.

My great grandfather was a cabinet maker, I have a lot of his old wooden planes, but his chisels are the best I've ever come across, Sheffield steel of course that take and hold an edge that modern steels just don't seem to do.

As I've said before I just love using tools that have been 'pre-owned' and have a history.

Somehow, an electric router doesn't have the same romance.



This Norris recently sold for ?1200.


Colin

Colin S38807.2952199074

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Shawn, Todd, how about these two, at the same sale:

The number 11 rosewood infil went for ?3600, and the coffin smoother with walnut infil was cheap at ?1000!



Also have a look at this site, this is a hand builder in Devon in the west of Enland. I often look at his site and make a mental shoping list. When I retire maybe!

Classic Planes

ColinColin S38807.495625

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, Todd is trying to help you away from this addiction, but you don't seem to listen and just keep 'em coming...

Snap out of it, you're in deep already!

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

The Norris, Spears, Mathieson and other infill planes I have bought on eBay, not at auction. Because I prefer used, I look for planes that may look neglected but that are solidly built.

I got one that looks like the #11 above for ?40 and a coffin smoother like the other for ?25, both on eBay by just searching for infill and waiting for one that isnt too pricey. The ones that get bid up are the overpolished (strips the patina) cleaned up ones with slick pictures. Collectors who bid these up also tend to go more for the ebony or rosewood infilled planes so the same plane with mahogany infill is much usually less. I go for the ones in which the photo is poor, the metal a dark gray and poorly described For me it sometimes cost more for the shipping than the item when it comes to heavy tools from Europe.

One of the eBay UK tool sellers I have had good results from is HonestJohn..he manages to find alot so I am him to a favorite seller list in eBay and am just patient until one comes along that is interesting and a price I am willing to pay

[QUOTE=Shawn] My 60 1/2 I is so attuned to me (and I have tuned it) that I carry it in a holder on my belt at all times when in the shop.[/QUOTE]
"Quick-Shave Shawn!" Draw, varmint!!!