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| Frets....glue in or not? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=6047 |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:40 pm ] |
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So far I havent used glue on my frets but my research indicates that that quite a few people use either AR or epoxy in their frets. Id be interested to canvas people's thoughts on this one. Do you use glue on your frets, what sort of glue to you use and why do you glue (or not glue)? Thanks in advance for responses and cheers Martin |
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| Author: | Andy Zimmerman [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:46 pm ] |
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I have not up to this point. I started this way after touring Taylor Guitars...They just press them in, so that is what I have done Andy |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:47 pm ] |
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I use a tiny amount of LMI white, I put a tiny drop on my finger and swipe the bottom of the tang, and then tap it in, I use a plastic hamer. |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:41 pm ] |
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Thanks for the comments guys. So far I havent glued and so far havent had any problems.....I'm either a topgun fretman or I've just been lucky (more likely the latter!!). |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:48 pm ] |
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Martin, I've always glued my frets in. I use LMI white glue in the slot and then set them in. I've never had a fret lift, but they can be easily removed fr refretting or repair by running a soldering iron along the crown a few times to heat them and break the glue joint before pulling. I have always chosen to glue because the glue will be absorbed into the broken end grain that makes up each side of the slots and creates a small amount of swelling that allows the slot to fully conform to the tang and barbs of each fret. This gives an more integral fit between frets and board. To each his own, but I just like to be as safe as possible. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:41 pm ] |
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Although Ive never glued in frets to date I think I'll try white glue on the bottom of the fret....if it reduces the chances of a fret lifting then its worth doing. Cheers Martin |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:35 am ] |
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Many people wick in cyano after the frets are seated. Another way to get a little extra insurance. I've been doing this. Watch Frank Ford do a fret job for some tips on slick technique. For a minute there my morning brain drew a blank on "AR" glue... oh, yeah, aliphatic resin, i.e. yellow or white glue, wood glue... |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:56 am ] |
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How much repair work have you guys done? If you've done a lot, you'll know that gluing the frets in is a good idea. I've done a lot of warranty work on Martins, and lifting fret ends was one of the classic issues I dealt with. I go with the wicked in CA glue. |
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| Author: | Evan Gluck [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:57 am ] |
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I agree with Rick, I generally wick the CA in. I used to wax the board around the fret or frets I was gluing but as I got better (bolder) I now use acetone to quickly wipe the excess if there is any. Be careful of acetone!! It will ruin laquer, binding, and your nail polish 
Evan |
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| Author: | Kevin Gallagher [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:33 am ] |
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My only reservation concerning using CA glue on frets and especially the wicking of it in after the frets are installed is the danger it poses to finish if it gets away from you...and it gets away from more people who care to admit it. Those lifting ends on Martin frets were a regular repair in my shop for 20 years too. It's just not enough to rely on a good tight slot to tang fit because, with time and the inevitible movement of the wood under the frets, they will come loose and can not only lift but also cause buzzes and rattles that are difficult to locate. I've done repairs on finishes for some repair people who have used CA glue during refrets. Not only can it easily get away and make cintact with finish, but it isn;t as friendly to the person who my be commissioned to remove those frets in the future. Finally, the CA glue isn't as cooperative in giving up its grip on the frets if they need to be removed in the future. A little heat and the white glue lats go and allows the fret to be easily pulled with no chipping of the fingerboard. The wicked in CA glue brings up chunks and chips not only with the tang of the frets, but also with the joint that is created between the bottom of the crown and the actual surface of the board. Just my experience and findings. Regards, Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:53 am ] |
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If you use an American Beauty resistance soldering station and apply the electrodes directly to any frets you want to remove, you'll get wonderfully even heat all across the fret, and the frets will come out with hardly a chip or splinter. On particularly dry fingerboards, apply a bit of lemon oil to the 'board and the frets will come out even easier. On lacquered necks, don't apply the superglue to the very end of the fret, move in 3/16" or so. It will wick right in. Clean quickly to minimize use of solvents that will attack lacquer. |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:07 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Evan Gluck] Be careful of acetone!! It will ruin laquer, binding, and your nail polish
Evan[/QUOTE] Evan, from that pic in your Avatar it looks like youve been drinking that acetone!!! Cheers Martin |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:51 am ] |
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Hear,Hear!!! I am with Rick here as well. And even more true on refets |
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| Author: | GregG [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:17 am ] |
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Can I use Titebond, or is there a reason white glue works better. Come to think of it....I wouldn't think either one would stick to metal, does it? Thanks, Greg |
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| Author: | Rick Turner [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:35 am ] |
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The theory is that the glue fills up gaps and/or the water in it helps swell the wood. Use CA. |
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| Author: | GregG [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:01 am ] |
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O.K., CA sounds reasonable....how do you "wick it" does it go in the moment before the fret is pressed or is the fret in place then the CA is lightly dispensed into/along the edge of the fret. Whats the working time with CA, how long before it sets up? Greg |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:10 am ] |
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Tilt the guitar up (body high as not to accidentally spill CA on the body), use a very small capillary tube that will only let a drop at a time out and let the drop wick between the fret and the fretboard. use the low viscosity CA it will set is seconds I do this after the frets are pressed in. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:12 am ] |
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[QUOTE=GregG] Can I use Titebond, or is there a reason white glue works better. Come to think of it....I wouldn't think either one would stick to metal, does it? [/QUOTE] People have indeed used Titebond successfully in this application, but the LMI white dries harder. As Rick said, PVA glues swell the wood around the barbs, but they also harden the fibers a bit when they dry. In my experience, CA doesn't stick to metal very well, either, but it does seem to offer some extra hold on fret ends, especially on bound fingerboards, and is definitely the glue of choice in that application; also for frets that have popped up due to wood movement (usually those hadn't been glued when installed). |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:33 am ] |
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[QUOTE=GregG] Can I use Titebond, or is there a reason white glue works better. Come to think of it....I wouldn't think either one would stick to metal, does it? Thanks, Greg[/QUOTE] White glue easier to soften up with heat than AR glue? In his book, Jim Williams states that the main reason he uses PVA/AR glue on his frets is to reduce chances of fretboard tear out when frets are removed. Cheers Martin |
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