| Official Luthiers Forum! http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Headstock angle? http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=6074 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey, I made a neck blank for my last guitar the way Kinkead does it...just to see what was what...I liked the idea of no fussing with a mitred scarf joint during glue up...thing is, the headstock angle is kind of shallow with his way...more like a Gibson electric...I'd say 10-12 degrees if I had to guess...it seems functionally OK...just looks weird from the playing position...what are your thoughts on this... 
|
|
| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Are we talking steel string acoustic? I'm thinking the only difference between a standard 15 degree angle and yours is strenght. The steeper angle would be mechanically stronger. Is the 12 degree strong enough for medium or heavy strings? Probably, but an engineer can tell you for sure. |
|
| Author: | TimDet [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Made mine the same way,I believe it measures 10deg.I thought it was not enough but am planning on light to med strings on a yellow cedar/sitka Dred.This is my first build.I'm working on the neck joint now so I will see what happens when she done.I will adjust the angle on the next one. |
|
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Joe, yes steel string...I think maybe that's just Kinkead's way...the guitar in his book is an OM so most likely strung with lts...to me it's just an odd look compared to anything else...and to get a greater angle, you'd need an extra lamination at the headstock...so that defeats the purpose if you're saving wood...still takes care of the scarf tho... |
|
| Author: | mikev [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I could be wrong, but I believe my necks which are made from bob benedettos plan/book are 12.5 degrees. I'm at work or I'd check.. Of course the only one I installed on a body did not stay in use long. It was made thin for a small sons hand and he went and grew..a new one is just about finished. Mike |
|
| Author: | RussellR [ Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi Larry The way kinkaed shows to mark it out wides you about seven inches of headstock, which is fairly long, if you shoten it you make it steeper. depends of course if this duits your headstock length. |
|
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Thanks Russell, makes sense! By the by, your Dylan line reminds me of another, Jethro Tull..."Charlie stole the handle, and the train it wouldn't stop going, wouldn't slow down!" 
|
|
| Author: | Colin S [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Larry, there is nothing magical about the 15deg headstock angle that most seem to use, OK I do too because that's what I made the saw jig. I remember measuring my old Martins and they measured between 12 and 14deg angles. It's the break angle of the string that matters, so if using a slot head you can use a shallower scarf angle. Kinkead's method of stacked head will give you a head angle of about 12deg, which is plenty. You can always use a thicker piece of wood for the stack and increase the angle of the head. I'm moving over to V-joints now though. Colin |
|
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Colin, Yes, I was trying to avoid the scarf, and save wood over using a one-piece neck...I see what you mean about the older Martins...I just was weirded out by the shallower angle when I looked down at it...I certainly wouldn't want it any shallower tho...the break angle of the strings is what I'd consider the minimum right where it is! The customer's happy tho!
|
|
| Author: | Mario [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
A lower angle(10 VS the common 15) makes for a stronger, not weaker, headstock, since the short grain is now longer. The drawback is the lower string angle over the nut can lead to string buzzes at the nut. You can minimize this by using tuners that have a string hole closer to the headplate, or by making the headstock slightly thicker to pull the string hole in the tuner post closer to the headplate. Or simply wind more string on the posts to force the free length down. |
|
| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Colin S] I'm moving over to V-joints now though. Colin[/QUOTE] All right Colin! Let us know how it goes. |
|
| Author: | mikev [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
larry, I believe the correct verse is: "old charlie stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down" in one verse he exchanges God for old charlie. I had to note this 'cause after I read your note I couldn't get it out of my head.  still can't.. make it stop!!please make it stop
Mike |
|
| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Larry you are aware that a properly constructed scarf joint is actually stronger than the one piece, right
|
|
| Author: | Colin S [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=jfrench] [QUOTE=Colin S] I'm moving over to V-joints now though. Colin[/QUOTE] All right Colin! Let us know how it goes. [/QUOTE] Your fault Joshua! I've got this beautiful piece of 38mm thick rippled mahogany that looks at me and says "make me into a V-joint" so it just has to be done, they just look more elegant as well. I've got your tutorial printed off and have made up some paper mockups to get the principles into my head. My local tonewood guy sells 38mm mahogany and cedrela neck stock especially for V-joints. So, it would be pure cowardice not to do them. Colin |
|
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes, Michael you are right...the last one I threw against the wall in frustration after finding the bottom part of the joint had opened in the clamps held up much better than a one piece would've! Next I think I'll try "pinning" the scarf joint in the waste area just above the nut...I don't think I'll be doing V-joints anytime soon tho...reminds me too much of all the dovetails I cut during the furniture days!
|
|
| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=Colin S] Your fault Joshua! I've got this beautiful piece of 38mm thick rippled mahogany that looks at me and says "make me into a V-joint" so it just has to be done, they just look more elegant as well. I've got your tutorial printed off and have made up some paper mockups to get the principles into my head. My local tonewood guy sells 38mm mahogany and cedrela neck stock especially for V-joints. So, it would be pure cowardice not to do them. Colin[/QUOTE] Plus it is a well known fact that you Europeans have sharper tools than us Americans, so there's no excuse not to! 
I'm taking a break from fitting one as I write this. If you take your time they're fun. |
|
| Author: | charliewood [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 3:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
[QUOTE=mikev] larry, I believe the correct verse is: "old charlie stole the handle, and the train it won't stop going, no way to slow down" in one verse he exchanges God for old charlie. I had to note this 'cause after I read your note I couldn't get it out of my head. still can't.. make it stop!!please make it stop
Mike[/QUOTE] 
I got he handle and I aint giving it back either, remember the vandals also stole the handle at one point. Cheers Charlie |
|
| Author: | RussellR [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi Larry I'm glad you managed to figure out my post, I really must learn to type
Sounds like a whole load of trouble with handles. |
|
| Author: | L. Presnall [ Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Russell, sounds like you learned "touch typing" in high school as I did...works great IF you start on the right keys!
|
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|