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Well, I'm a-shopping for a bandsaw (to be bought in the next 2 months, hopefully), and I've come across what looks like an almost new MiniMax S45 (18" bandsaw..well, 45cm wheels, anyway) which has good resaw height and (importantly) runs on 220V. I'm negotiating the price, which seems high to me (only a little less than a brand new one at 1800 dollar list price, in the US.), and I've got my eye on a few other contenders (an Elektra Beckum which could do the job), but I figured I'd ask about any experience y'all have.

Good? Bad? Ugly? Web trawling reveals pretty positive experiences, but I'm also curious as to actual prices paid over stateside, as most web stores will list list price, but not street price.

Conways over here recently sold a secondhand Minimax S45 for ?750. The new price here seems to be ?1300-?1400.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Thanks. That's much closer to the second-hand price I considered reasonable; I've shot a local MiniMax dealer an email enquiring as to new prices locally, which should help as well.

Not too familiar with the S45, although I know it is very different than their standard line, a bit lighter I believe. I have the standard Minimax 16" saw with 16" resaw capacity and a 5hp motor...it is a fantastic saw, probably the best piece in my shop.

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

If it's a Mini-Max, it's probably a great saw. They're probably the best saws out there, even better than a Laguna when comparing side-by-side. I know two people with the 16" and they love them.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

mattia,

i would check out centauro bandsaws also, well built simple and you can get carter blade guides as standard.

paddy

[QUOTE=Don Williams] If it's a Mini-Max, it's probably a great saw. They're probably the best saws out there, even better than a Laguna when comparing side-by-side. I know two people with the 16" and they love them. [/QUOTE]
I'll re-saw your MiniMax on my Laguna.

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Kenmore, NY 14217
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[QUOTE=PaddyD] mattia,

i would check out centauro bandsaws also, well built simple and you can get carter blade guides as standard.

paddy[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I'll look around for a dealer that's not too far away, and see what kind of crazy sums they shoot at me. Problem I keep running into is these great deals on big, second hand saws with tri-phase motors; I simply can't justify the added cost of redoing the entire wiring just to add a 380v line to the garden shed...

I have an S45 I bought new in 1995 or so. I wouldn't do it again- I'd
probably get a Laguna.
The blade guide was feeble (I changed to Carter's) the rip fence is a joke ( I
made my own for re-sawing) and I burned out the motor re-sawing Oak
(replaced it with a Baldor). With what I've put into it I could have bought a
much better saw. Hindsight is 20-20....
Unless they've improved the above mentioned on recent models I wouldn't
go more than $1000 for it.
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

[QUOTE=Chas Freeborn] I have an S45 I bought new in 1995 or so. I wouldn't do it again- I'd
probably get a Laguna.
The blade guide was feeble (I changed to Carter's) the rip fence is a joke ( I
made my own for re-sawing) and I burned out the motor re-sawing Oak
(replaced it with a Baldor). With what I've put into it I could have bought a
much better saw. Hindsight is 20-20....
Unless they've improved the above mentioned on recent models I wouldn't
go more than $1000 for it.
-C[/QUOTE]

Hmm...good to know. I'll keep that in mind.

After a little more reading, it seems like the S45 is the lightly built little brother (big little brother, but still) in the MiniMax family. The MM series (which, based on the pictures, are the 'standard' MiniMax saws, like the S400P and the S500P, etc.) are a touch more solid.

Paddy, I checked Centauro's info, but the ones that come with carter guides are way, way, way too huge for the size of the shop I've got. I'm not even sure they have a saw that would fit. I'm looking for a 16", 17" or MAXIMUM 18" saw with good resaw capacity.

I have a mm16 and it's a beast. With a sharp blade it'll cut anything wood
you throw at it...

I don't know about the littler model..

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

There are sevveral people around here that swear by Agazanni saws. I don't know anything about them, but they might be worth checking out. Sounds like you should steer clear of the S45. And don't listen to that Bob C guy....he's biased about them Laguna saws.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Heh...Lagunas are rebadged all-sorts-of-stuff, so I'm pretty darn sure I ain't getting one of those. I've shot a few emails to suppliers, and there's one fairly close by, so I'll be swinging around to have a look. If the deal/sales support is good, I may just get a new saw. This is my first one, after all...

[QUOTE=Don Williams] There are sevveral people around here that swear by Agazanni saws. I don't know anything about them, but they might be worth checking out. Sounds like you should steer clear of the S45. And don't listen to that Bob C guy....he's biased about them Laguna saws.
[/QUOTE]
That BobC guy has re-sawn a lot of wood with his re-badged Laguna. Mine's made in Italy and I "think" all the HD series are. To me the it's the motor and the guides and both are excellant on the Laguna HD series. Of course the blade is all important too. I have a 16" Jet too for general band sawing and it's the quietest smoothest running saw I have ever used.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Mattia,
Laguna's are very good saws. The workmanship of the Agazzani (I've
heard) is second to none. However, MiniMax makes the best saws in my
opinion, especially when you consider the price/performance ratio. A
bandsaw is one of those tools that you will be using a lot - I would get
yourself a MM16 or look for a used MM20 or 24.

Another option (which is the one I went with) is too buy a Grizzly - but I
don't think they ship overseas, correct? You will be able to buy a much
more powerful/bigger machine for the money.

I think that when you're talking about MiniMax, Laguna, and Agazanni etc, you're talking great quality with them all. You can't go wrong with their better lines.
You know I was just teasin' ya, right Bob?


BUT Grizzly's newer saws are getting so good that they are going to be giving the European saws a run for their money. Their new 21" saw is exceptional. The only possible issue remaining with Grizzly stuff is their motors, but considering you can buy the 21" Grizzly for more than $1000 less than the MM20, you can afford to replace the motor with a Baldor and still have a great saw for a lot less.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Bob, please don't hurt my little 14" RIDGID!

I know when I was shopping for a bandsaw, I encountered several guys who bought Agazanni saws and later sold them for Minimax saws. The Laguna looks like a very good saw, especially now that they have a Baldor motor. A common theme amongst those who know these saws better than I was that the MM saw was the most ridgid of the bunch allowing for high tension blades like the Lennox. The stiffness of the MM saw was supposedly due to a main frame which is quite a bit thicker than the Laguna. I'm sure both brands would do a great job, but as John Mayes said, these MM saws are beasts, I've never had mine struggle at all, and I'm talking sawing through 15" thick hickory.....awesome saw!

Greg

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Gwaltney Guitars

Mattia, most European 3 phase motors can be wired for either 380 or 230 V (star or triangle configuration). Are you sure you don't already have 230 V 3 phase into your house, at least as far as the breaker panel; most newer houses up here do (we draw our single phase from 2 of the phases).

I have an older Centauro 24" band saw with a 2, 2 Kw 3 phase motor that I got cheap, but it runs beautifully now after some fine-tuning and TLC. Like you have found out, there are often some great deals to be had on second hand 3 phase machinery that are much better quality than the more light weight new stuff. And, the footprint of a big band saw is not much more than a smaller saw so it does not necessarily take up much more space...

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Arnt] Mattia, most European 3 phase motors can be wired for either 380 or 230 V (star or triangle configuration). Are you sure you don't already have 230 V 3 phase into your house, at least as far as the breaker panel; most newer houses up here do (we draw our single phase from 2 of the phases).

I have an older Centauro 24" band saw with a 2, 2 Kw 3 phase motor that I got cheap, but it runs beautifully now after some fine-tuning and TLC. Like you have found out, there are often some great deals to be had on second hand 3 phase machinery that are much better quality than the more light weight new stuff. And, the footprint of a big band saw is not much more than a smaller saw so it does not necessarily take up much more space...[/QUOTE]

Arnt, you got any details on re-wiring three-phase 380V motors to run on 230V? I'm fairly positive the house (like pretty much everything around here) has three phase/380 up to the breaker box, as that's pretty much standard?

I'm seeing a lot (many, many) of saws around the 750-1000 euro mark, between 18" and 24", most of them Italian (MiniMax, Meber, Centauro, Cattini), some German (Electra Beckum), almost all of them 380V motors. I'm also thinking that if I can't re-wire, it might still be cheaper to simply replace the motor with a decent 230V unit and just go ahead and buy a solid piece of iron.

I won't actually buy anything until we get the keys to the house, and I get a chance to stare at/examine the whole electrical setup, add another lock to the door, that sort of thing...

Mattia, I'm talking about rewiring it to run on 230 V 3 phase, not single phase if that was unclear. You will usually find a chart on the motor that looks something like this:

230V:
. . .
I I I
. . .


380V:
.-.-.
. . .

These 3 phase motors will run both ways, so if your saw starts sawing the wrong way after you rewire it, just switch 2 of the phases and it will run the oposite way.

I am not sure about the Netherlands, but we have 230V 3 phase into the breaker panel, not 380V, that is usually only for industrial use.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Don Williams] I think that when you're talking about MiniMax, Laguna, and Agazanni etc, you're talking great quality with them all. You can't go wrong with their better lines.
You know I was just teasin' ya, right Bob?


BUT Grizzly's newer saws are getting so good that they are going to be giving the European saws a run for their money. Their new 21" saw is exceptional. The only possible issue remaining with Grizzly stuff is their motors, but considering you can buy the 21" Grizzly for more than $1000 less than the MM20, you can afford to replace the motor with a Baldor and still have a great saw for a lot less.
[/QUOTE]
Don
I know your teasing me. just giving a little back. Also I agree with your assesment on the various saws. I use the Lenox Tri-Master carbide blades and they work great on the Laguna. The Laguna Re-Saw King is the most amazing cut I have ever seen. Veneers are a snap with that blade. Only drawback is it doesn't stay sharp too long. Like Mario that sometimes grumpy guy up north always preaches about it's the sum of all the little things that make a good guitar. Same thing holds true for sucessful re-sawing.

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
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The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

I've got a Mini Max S16 that has worked out great. Its make by Meber. Laguna used to sell the same machine as the LT16.

Joe Volin

I shopped a long time before I bought a Mini-Max 24", (wood show floor model) and I could not be happier. This thing will cut through anything I can throw at it, and has not given me a bit of trouble.

Arnt, thanks, I'll keep looking into it. All the sources I can find re: tri-phase 380V power indicate that it's the standard to all homes' breaker boxes over here, but the cost involved is that it must be activated by the power company on request by a certified electrician, you need a second meter, a second breaker box, a certified electrician has to install it all, and is subsequently liable for the security of the ENTIRE power system, so it may require a massive overhaul of the entire home's wiring. Which could get much more expensive than the price of the saw itself very quickly.