What does Boaz ... or what do other folks use to make black frets?
Boaz Clarita Negra Flamenco Guitar - Wowza!
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:17 am ] |
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What does Boaz ... or what do other folks use to make black frets?
Boaz Clarita Negra Flamenco Guitar - Wowza! |
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| Author: | Scott McKee [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:25 am ] |
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1/8" black Delrin rod epoxied into square channels. The rods sit a touch more than half of their diameter in the channels so that the epoxy can capture and hold them. |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:28 am ] |
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Thanks Scott. All I could remember is that the material began with a "d". |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:18 am ] |
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The manufacturer of Delrin manufactures rod down to 1/8"...too large for ukes. Sheets go down to 1/16". i could cut and round strips. Any other black fret materials. I found this guitar with ebony frets. 
It is a great look and important to the design on my board. |
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| Author: | Jason [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:58 am ] |
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Thats awesome. Delrin frets probably wouldnt last long? Or would they? The bolt in my paintball gun was delrin and that thing never showed any wear. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:30 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Jason]Delrin frets probably wouldnt last long? Or would they? [/QUOTE] I've wondered about that, too; but they apparently work okay in Boaz' nylon string instruments. Besides, I start getting noticeable fret wear in a new, or newly-fretted, guitar after about two months, so could delrin be much worse? Should last forever in a uke! |
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| Author: | Jason [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:34 am ] |
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I'd think delrin would last pretty long with nylon strings. Steel strings might be a different story, as I said before a lot of paintball gun bolts are delrin and they can cycle like a million times without wearing out but they are rubbing against mirror polished and hard anodized aluminum not rough steel strings. |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:12 am ] |
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Delrin is also used to make guitar picks. I have some nut blanks made out of Delrin. Never would have thought "frets"...sure does look pretty tho! |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:22 am ] |
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Boaz uses them for steel stringed, too. From his website: But look closely at the picture: see anything unusual? No, I don't mean the body shape ... what I'm talking about is this: where are the frets? Is this a fretless guitar? No - but the frets are made of a black, non-metallic composite. Here's why: * Extremely quiet attack between fret and strings. "I guess we don't want noise in the recording studio ..." * Extends string life * You won't believe this, but it also extends fret life (trust me; or better yet, buy one and see for yourself!) * "Normal" frets are ugly! Hey, and if you don't agree with me, what are you doing here? Get off my web page! Just kidding - but if you do prefer a more "traditional" style, why not take a look at my concert classical and flamenco guitars? Note once again that the standard nut and frets on this Clarita Negra is a custom option. |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:30 pm ] |
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Delrin is extremely tough for plastic. There are tougher, but delrin is relatively common. I wonder, if an extrusion mold would be worth building for the nylon string market? It would be easy to make! What does everybody think? |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:10 pm ] |
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I haven't tried it but as the frets we use are steel the products sold for chemical bluing gun parts, by for instance Birchwood Casey, should also work to make frets a near black. It may wear after a lot of use, but to me that would be good as I like to see a bit of fingerboard grime, It would be a simple job to touch it up as needed. Colin |
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| Author: | vachterm [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:51 pm ] |
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Boaz is now back in Israel, and we talked a while back. i m planning on paying him a visit on wednesday. i could ask... Udi. |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:14 pm ] |
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Udi- How I would love to talk to him and see his shop! I'd be curious if he could suggest a method to develop smaller black frets. Materials...techniques. THX |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:35 am ] |
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Billy- How would the extrusion be done? can you give a quick description? I've little experience with plastics. |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:24 am ] |
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I've never used gun bluing. Is it simply a wipe on process? Would you mask the frets and blue individually on the fretboard? |
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| Author: | vachterm [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:25 am ] |
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ill take pics once there if Boaz wont mind. |
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:45 am ] |
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[QUOTE=hoosierukes] Billy- How would the extrusion be done? can you give a quick description? I've little experience with plastics.[/QUOTE] Probably much the same as aluminum. In a press, heat a billet almost to melting, then squish it through a die. As to whether this is possible depends on the nature of small-profile delrin as it cools. It may warp too much to use. It seems like slicing from sheets is the most workable solution. Of course, this leaves you with no tang and barbs. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:54 am ] |
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[QUOTE=hoosierukes] I've never used gun bluing. Is it simply a wipe on process? Would you mask the frets and blue individually on the fretboard? [/QUOTE] Yes it's a simple wipe on process, I would definitely mask the wood I'm not sure what the chemicals would do to it. The more coats you wipe on the blacker it gets. This is the sort of stuff, they do a cream as well, whether it will work on frets I don't know having never tried it. ColinBC gun blue |
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| Author: | Billy T [ Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:29 am ] |
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[QUOTE]Billy- How would the extrusion be done? can you give a quick description? I've little experience with plastics[/QUOTE] Yea! Think- Playdo Factory. The plastic is heated and forced by screw injection through a die! BUT!!! Delrin is very toxic in molten form!!! Believe me, I know! Me and about 4 other guys were having a bad problems sleeping, headaches, general malaise until the boss came out and told us the crap wasn't to be molded without the doors open and vent fans! Then everybody piped up, we were all having the same problems, Geesh! It should be molded by a proper molding facility, but the dies are very simple. An injection mold would be even easy to make. But, one would need a market, to justify tool-up expense. |
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| Author: | csullivan [ Wed May 03, 2006 4:39 am ] |
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Colin, I don't think gun blueing would necessarily work on frets. Frets aren't made of steel -- they are predominently nickel/silver and probably some other alloys as well. I find the black frets very interesting. Geoff Davis, you got me thinking about uke frets. As you said, you could use 1/16" sheet stock. Just radius an edge and rip off a strip wide enough to embed in the fret slot. If you ever try it, you have to post pics. I just finished a concert uke and would have tried it if I had seen this thread first. Craig S. |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Wed May 03, 2006 5:25 am ] |
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I finialized the design for this uke last night (Is any design ever final?) and plan to begin work asap. This is a protoype, so it will take a back seat to paying/deadline work. I've still not settled on a black fret plan....but she'll have black frets. |
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| Author: | hoosierukes [ Wed May 03, 2006 5:27 am ] |
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Any pictures? We're uke starved! |
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