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Making a Spalted Rosette
http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=6667		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  rich altieri [ Sat May 13, 2006 1:14 pm ]
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I fell in love with a spalted maple rosette I saw on a guitar some time ago. Trying to figure out how to do this.

Working on a piece of plywood, I routed the channel and lined it with BWB purfling for starters. Now I am not sure how to cut the strips of maple to insert.

One approach I tried seemed to work as follows: Spalted Maple is fragile as you probably know so I simply forced it into the channel like you do with Abalam. Seemed to work ok and I was thinking I might shellac and then wipe some black dye which would accent the breaking points giving it a marbelized look which is common to Spalted.

The only other approach I was considering is cutting pieces into small bites and fitting them by sanding slight contour on inside and outside edges but that seems like an awfull amount of work and patience.

Here is a picture to help better understand
Author:  LanceK [ Sat May 13, 2006 1:21 pm ]
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Rich, although ive never used spalted wood for a rosette, its on my todo list, i would probably handle it just like I do any other wood rosette, that is to cut a ring to the desired width out of the spalt, then inlay that in to the top first, after that, id go back and rout for the purflings.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sat May 13, 2006 1:45 pm ]
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Rich, I agree with Lance completely. The spalt should be inlaid first, then you can go back to rout for the b/w/b. Doing it that way you tidy the edges up nicely.
Here's a spalted Ambrosia maple ring from our very own BobC:





Steve
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Sat May 13, 2006 1:50 pm ]
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Many thanks, but let's all clap the Zootman on the back, eh?
If all goes well, this guitar is going to Tacoma with me in June to the Convention.

SK
Author:  rich altieri [ Sat May 13, 2006 2:15 pm ]
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Ahhh so that's the trick to inlay it and then rout for the purfling - so simple!!!

Thanks guys
Author:  old man [ Sat May 13, 2006 2:43 pm ]
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When are we going to see that finished box elder guitar?

Ron
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Sat May 13, 2006 4:28 pm ]
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A couple of my good friends and fabulous builders use spalted maple all the time. I noticed earlier today that one of them is now a memeber of our community. Michael Collins builds wonderful guitars and you can see his work, including his rosettes, here. Michael Greenfield, he and Collins know each other well and communicate often, uses spalted maple as his standard also, his work is here.

I agree with Steve, inner ring first and then rout out you BWB and /or abalone rings.

Shane
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Sat May 13, 2006 6:26 pm ]
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The burl rosette I've done was simply made by routing out the rosette ring, and then dry-fitting the whole thing (with purflings) in a scrap piece until I settled on the tightest fit. It is pretty wasteful, although you get nice pre-cut coasters out of 'em...
Author:  rich altieri [ Sun May 14, 2006 12:55 am ]
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Ok, with your help here is how I approached and the end result:

First, routed channel in the soundboard. Then used this a guide to cut the ring from the spalted maple board I had. Actually, made several partial cuts with the dremel and ste mac circle cutter to capture as much figure as I could. Required a little joining but the black ink lines hide this well.

Then glued the rosette in and then as you suggested here, routed the purfling line channels and presto - pretty nice!!

One additional point. Once I had the maple installed and prior to routing the rosette channel I wicked cyano into the maple to stabilize it and prevent chip out on the edges. Kept applying the cyano until it no longer sunk into the maple which was quite a bit and worked carefully around the edges hoping it wouldn't wick into the soundboard which was shellaced prior to rosetting. Worked great.







Author:  rich altieri [ Sun May 14, 2006 12:59 am ]
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Author:  rich altieri [ Sun May 14, 2006 1:00 am ]
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Author:  Roy O [ Sun May 14, 2006 3:18 am ]
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Well done Rich. Now you got me wanting to do one of those.
Author:  peterm [ Sun May 14, 2006 4:12 am ]
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I've only done koa and maple rosettes, but I'm with Lance. "cut a ring to the desired width out of the spalt, then inlay that in to the top first, after that, id go back and rout for the purflings."

Author:  Terry Stowell [ Sun May 14, 2006 4:57 am ]
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[QUOTE=Shane Neifer] Michael Collins builds wonderful guitars and you can see his work, including his rosettes, here. Shane[/QUOTE]

When I first got into luthiery, Mike was the first builder I met. He lived about 1/2 hour away from me, and the only luthier I knew at that time. I rebuilt a '45 Martin guitar, he provided the lacquer (which I laughingly still have some!!)and the encouragement

I love his rosettes too. Thanks Mike!Terry Stowell38851.8837847222
Author:  charliewood [ Sun May 14, 2006 5:27 am ]
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Spalted maple is beautiful! I know its prolly exotic to someone in Kansas or Texas but in my back yard Theres prolly 6 cubic meters of it in various states of decomp! Im sure it will land up on my plate eventually.
I followed the links to those builders that use spalted maple in thier rossattes, cool stuff very nice.
I have to say Fanned frets are Weird!
I have been dying to try out a guitar with them! But none have cropped up in my area. I have small hands so Im assuming its prolly not an option for me tho.
Cheers
Charliewood
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sun May 14, 2006 5:42 am ]
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I usually do my all wood rosettes as mentioned above - make the ring first, inlay it, then cut a small channel for the purf rings or shell whichever is going in. Another cool way to do this, and get the most spalt liens in is to make a segmented rosette using identical pieces, my jig is set up to make 10 piece rosettes from a 1 inch wide piece of stock - if you flip the piece every time you make a cut, the pieces make the grain lines go around the rosette (as in the pic - this is quilted bubinga cut on the quarter face, revealing wave figure). I like to accent the joints with a colour line(s). Or if you have the ability to bookmatch two one inch strips from a chunk, you can cut matching pieces from each one and then arrange them in a bookmatched pattern around the rosette.All that said, if its possible to get a lot of spalted figure in a one piece ring, I would likely do that instead.

Author:  Shane Neifer [ Sun May 14, 2006 7:38 am ]
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You're absolutely right Terry, Mike is a GREAT Guy. He found me on the web and he and I have since exchanged a huge amount of e-mail. He is actually walking me through a flamenco I am about to build. He has been at guitarmaking a long time but his enthusiasm for the craft is like that of someone just newly discovering it!

Shane
Author:  peterm [ Sun May 14, 2006 7:53 am ]
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Tony, thats a great idea! Thanks for sharing! lovely rosette!
Author:  Cocephus [ Sun May 14, 2006 8:22 am ]
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Looks like it all came together for ya, Rich.
Rather nicely I might add. Nice job!
Author:  rich altieri [ Sun May 14, 2006 10:20 pm ]
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[QUOTE=TonyKarol] I usually do my all wood rosettes as mentioned above - make the ring first, inlay it, then cut a small channel for the purf rings or shell whichever is going in. Another cool way to do this, and get the most spalt liens in is to make a segmented rosette using identical pieces, my jig is set up to make 10 piece rosettes from a 1 inch wide piece of stock - if you flip the piece every time you make a cut, the pieces make the grain lines go around the rosette (as in the pic - this is quilted bubinga cut on the quarter face, revealing wave figure). I like to accent the joints with a colour line(s). Or if you have the ability to bookmatch two one inch strips from a chunk, you can cut matching pieces from each one and then arrange them in a bookmatched pattern around the rosette.All that said, if its possible to get a lot of spalted figure in a one piece ring, I would likely do that instead.

[/QUOTE]

Tony, I am thick when it comes to this stuff. Do you know of any web sites that show this process step by step with pics? Or would you consider adding a few pics for examples?
Author:  TonyKarol [ Sun May 14, 2006 10:26 pm ]
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Not off hand Rich - maybe later today or sometime I can take some shots of the jig which is the most critical part to do this - mine cuts fairly accurate - you need to be under 1/10 degree or the segments wont be that close to closing when you put it all together - I thought about it one day and here is why - a 10 segment rosette has 20 cuts, two on each piece. So if your cuts are off by 1/10 degree, on 20 cuts thats 2 degrees in total - over a 4.5 inch rosette, that means that the gap is about 1/8 inch.
Author:  Wayne Clark [ Mon May 15, 2006 1:15 am ]
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I just finished a spalted maple rosette last weekend. I use the same technique as Lance: route a channel in the top, cut a ring of the maple and inlay. After the glue dries, I cut the purfling channels. Here it is:



I got the rosette square and the purfling from BobC at RC Tonewoods.
Author:  Steve Kinnaird [ Mon May 15, 2006 4:14 am ]
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[QUOTE=old man] When are we going to see that finished box elder guitar?

Ron[/QUOTE]

Soon, Ron, very soon.

Steve
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