Official Luthiers Forum!

Hey guys, I've had several requests for the linings that I make. These are CFox style capped linings. They add a level of rigitity and stiffness to your sides without having to have the box closed up to do so. In my opinion they are far superior to any other design.
So I'm rebuilding my setup to make these and thought I'd put the offer out there to see if anyone wants them. They will be more expensive than any traditional linings but they are much different. I've charged $32 per guitar (4 kerfed linings and 4 cap strips) in the past and think that will be the price I'll stick with.
At this point, I'm just putting the feeler out to see if there is any interest. Let me know. Paul

I am interested. I know what they look like, but could you post a coupla pix for others? They're self explanatory....

Thanks Paul. Mighty nice of you, a bit self-less I might add

Yeah, Terry, I thought I had a pic on my hard drive but can't find it. I'll shoot more tomorrow.

I'm in for at least one set. Thanks, Paul...your generosity in sharing is much appreciated!

_________________
JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Paul, look forward to the pics, I have not seen them before or noticed them on your guitars. I'll be good for one I am sure at least.

Thanks

Mike
White Oak, Texas

Ok, here they are. I think they sort of explain themselves but if you need more explaination, let me know.

Paul, if you don't mind a newbie asking...have you seen a definitive improvement in sound using this kerfing? I'm wondering what the advantage of the increased rigidity is. Thanks.

Bill

_________________
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

Bill, there's no such thing as a newbie question as far as I'm concerned.
I wish I could answer that question but I've only build one guitar without these linings. It was a dred so I don't think it's a fair comparison to the other guitars in my line. My theory and many other builders share it as well, is that if the sides/back are as rigid as possible, the sound bounces right off without getting absorbed by any structural movement. I think it works but there are another group of builders that believe that sides and back should indeed move.
One of the big advantages to them is that once the guitar is lined, it can be removed from the outside mold and worked on as if it was a completed box. I sand the dome radius without a mold. In fact, I once caught the edge of the guitar on a slight tear in the sandpaper on my sander. It ripped it out of my hand and sent it sailing. Hit the wall with enough force to dent the drywall, and bounced on the concrete a couple of times. The only damage was a slight dent where the body landed on a dried piece of epoxy on the floor. Took thirty seconds to sand out and all was good again. I seriously doubt that a standard kerf lined guitar could have survived that.
Charles did an amazing job when he designed these.

Paul,

If you are making them in Spanish Cedar (that is what is pictured?) then I am interested in 4 sets.

Thanks

Shawn, I guess that would be my next question. What kind of wood do people want. I've done them in spruce, cedro, western red cedar (pictured) , mahogany and my favorite is aspen. So, yes, I can make them from cedro. Or really any other wood you might like.

I prefer the sound of a rigid box with a "working back". I can't remember
where I heard that term but it refers to a back that resonates as opposed
to one that doesn't. I have made both, there is a place for either. What
does this have to do with linings...rigid linings contribute to a type of
sound that allows the top and back to work together better than if the
sides are more flexible.

I am sure most builders here make their backs so they resonate in a
certain way to contribute to sound somehow. The use of rigid linings,
either solid laminated or these fine looking Fox type allow the builder to
concentrate on fine tuning the plates and how they work together.

So I think it is a great idea to use these type of linings since they are rigid
and light. It controls one variable and anything that simplifies the
variability in a very complex system such as a guitar is good. Keep in
mind I am not talking about making a guitar sound "better", rather
making it simpler to make a guitar sound like you or your customer
wants.

[QUOTE=Pwoolson]
My theory and many other builders share it as well, is that if the sides/back are as rigid as possible, the sound bounces right off without getting absorbed by any structural movement. I think it works but there are another group of builders that believe that sides and back should indeed move.
One of the big advantages to them is that once the guitar is lined, it can be removed from the outside mold and worked on as if it was a completed box. I sand the dome radius without a mold. In fact, I once caught the edge of the guitar on a slight tear in the sandpaper on my sander. It ripped it out of my hand and sent it sailing. Hit the wall with enough force to dent the drywall, and bounced on the concrete a couple of times. The only damage was a slight dent where the body landed on a dried piece of epoxy on the floor. Took thirty seconds to sand out and all was good again. I seriously doubt that a standard kerf lined guitar could have survived that.
Charles did an amazing job when he designed these. [/QUOTE]

Paul, would it be ok to use hardwoods if i were to follow your theory, i'm thinking black ash here? Thanks!

SergeSerge Poirier38867.9849421296

I am in. I would prefer spruce or another "white" wood, but anything will be fine.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock I can certainly do Spruce but if are just looking for a white inside of the box, I'd highly recomend aspen. It's techinally a hardwood as it's desidiuos (sp) but I was told it's one of, if not THE, softest of the hardwoods. The stuff works very well. Spruce on the other hand has given me lots of headaches in the milling process. But I'll look into it if you definatley want spruce.

Serge, yup, hardwoods can be used. The only issue I've found is the actual weight of the box. It will start to feel like an electric before long.Pwoolson38868.2627199074

Thanks Paul, just a curiosity!

Paul, this is great that you're offering these. For my slow mind, can you clarify what is the advantage of these over regular reversed-kerf linings? As far as stiffness goes, it's clear to me what these add over traditional linings, but I don't see what they add over reversed-kerf linings.

One thought I just had is that these might look a bit neater than reversed-kerf linings, since you won't get glue sqeeze-out in the kerfs.Todd Rose38868.3078819444

_________________
Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

Todd, you hit the nail on the head. You are gluing a flat surface to a flat surface so you don't have all that slop oozing out. then the cap strip gets glued on to the kerf and any ooz is down inside, far out of any sight line.
A coulple of advantages of these vs. the reversed linings I've seen. 1) the cap is thicker than the solid part of the reversed lining so the rigitity is even greater. 2) they won't break as easy. The cap strip is .070 which is easily bent in the Fox bender. The kerfed piece is .25 at its thickest part which is then kerfed so it's also very easily bent. I've only broken one piece in my career and that was just a couple of weeks ago on the cutaway of an archtop. The kerfed part broke on me so I just butted it back and when the cap was on, I couldn't even find the break.

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Brock I can certainly do Spruce but if are just looking for a white inside of the box, I'd highly recomend aspen. It's techinally a hardwood as it's desidiuos (sp) but I was told it's one of, if not THE, softest of the hardwoods. The stuff works very well. Spruce on the other hand has given me lots of headaches in the milling process. But I'll look into it if you definatley want spruce.

Serge, yup, hardwoods can be used. The only issue I've found is the actual weight of the box. It will start to feel like an electric before long.[/QUOTE]

Ok, aspen is cool.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I will be in for a few sets Paul

Paul, I'd take a few sets as well.

_________________
Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

Paul, can I order just one? You've sold me on the Aspen.
Thanks,
Ron

I would like two sets
Tom Harbin

Ron were you thinking one guitar or one strip? One guitar? Sure, that's fine. One strip? I suppose I could do that but not sure what you could do with it. Unless you are using it to measure and make your own? If that's the case, I'll just give you a cutoff that you can use. Let me know. Paul