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I'm wondering how many of you compensate your saddles. By compensating I'm not talking about the slanting the saddle back on the bass side, I'm talking about compensating each individual string. Intonate may be a better word, I don't know. When I see pics of most of the saddles on here they look like a smoothly rounded 3/32" saddle. If seems to get perfect intonation you would have to take maybe a 1/8" saddle and file peaks where each string contacts the saddle. It seems like if the string is setting on a "peak" or a sharp edge it would not have the contact it needs. I would appreciate info, pictures, whatever you have.

Colby,

I picked up a tip from a book -- and the author's name and title escapes me right now. I thought I had it handy in my easy-to-reach library out here in the shop, but I don't so anyway . . .

What you do is this:

Assuming your intonation is pretty close to begin with, set your saddle in the slot, but do so before you've put any sort of shape into the saddle. It should be the correct height, but flat on top.

Then scrounge around for a piece of a guitar string -- one of the unwound ones. I use one that is 0.015" in diameter.

Install the strings and tune them to pitch.

Then take the string segment and place it on the saddle, under one of the strings, in line with the saddle, perpendicular with the string. Move the string segment across the saddle until you hit the right spot for the string's intonation. Mark either side of the string segment with a thin-leaded pencil.

Move the string segment to the next string and continue this same process until you've found the best spot on the saddle for each string.

Then remove the saddle and with a narrow file, shape the saddle's top for each string, filing it down to the pencil lines.

Obviously this process works best if you have an accurate tuner to confirm your intonation with.

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38876.9989814815

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Colby,

I was at a violin making friends workshpp the other day and he pulled out
an Indonesian made steel string which hed planned to import and sell
before he found other ways to make money. I spent a good 20 minutes
trying to tune the thing and was really scratching my head untill I noticed
the saddle wasnt compensated. A quick check of harmonics and fretted
notes at the12th fret verified that intonation was way out.

I then had to work out a diplomatic way to break to my friend the news
that the guitar was a boat.

I use the method that Michael describes too, here's a picture.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

[QUOTE=Arnt] I use the method that Michael describes too, here's a picture.
[/QUOTE]

Arnt,

Lovely work on that saddle shaping

The B (2nd) string appears to be right on the back edge of the saddle . How do you find that the saddle wears under this string compared with the other strings?

The thing I like about the split saddle is thet I can get each string intonated pretty much along the centre of each saddle:

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave, it looks fragile, doesn't it? However, the saddle is holding up well, no excessive wear (this is my own guitar, almost a year old, so we shall see...). I think what matters is the angle of the bevel, how sharp the edge is and the quality of the material, not so much wheter the location of the "break point" is in the front, back or middle of the saddle.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Thanks guys!
What about tuners?
Do I need a really good electric tuner? I have a electric tuner but it's pretty old. It only runs about $50.00.

Yep in my opinion you need a tuner that is accurate at least with in +/-1c .1c is even better most led tuners are +/-4c. Not good enough for trained ears nor good enough to use to set intonation. I use a Peterson VSII and love it but a high end swing arm meter type will get the job done. But stay away from the inexpensive led readout meters.

Hi Colby

The only word of caution I would add is by tuning the inotation by filing peaks in to the saddle like this (and I do it myself)is if you change string brands, gauges, Tunings etc, the inotation will shift slightly. I do this for customers but try to string with the strings they like to use if they have a preference, some of my other players like the saddle left so they can make any fine adjustments themselves after they have experimented a bit.

On the tuner if you know somewhere that has a strobe tuner have yours checked against, you may find that it is accurate.

I think it is good to use your ears as well as tuners when setting the intonation and tuning an instrument.

Also the whole intonation thing is a compromise in many ways. Particularly on the low 6th string. I play a lot in altered tunings and the 6th strimg is tuned to A, D and C - and sometimes up to F as well . As a result I have the saddle slanted well back for the 5th and 6th strings. The 6th string at E is intonated a little flat, but when you tune down to D and C it is pretty much spot on. The ear hears sharp a lot more than it does flat and when the string is tuned to E it sounds fine. Also as I capo up the neck, I have to do little to no retuning of the 6th string with the capo on.

Unless the instrument has a pick-up, I find it very hard to get a clear/stable reading from a tuner on the 5th and 6th strings of my instrument fretted at the 12th fret - there seems to be so much going on in terms of overtones and other resonances.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

You are right there Dave.

Last time I was at the Studio in Bristol, Bob the sound engineer was giving me an education in how the human ear hears different notes, I was setting up a guitar and he was listen everything was perfect on the tuner, but he said to me make the G a smidge flat and the A a touch Sharp, I am talking tiny amounts, but it was like the instrument just came alive.

Awwwwwww the wonders of tempered intonation

Dave, Russell, the way the human ear hears sound is also the reason that I only rely on a tuner to get the top E tuned and then use the equal temper tuning system I've detailed here before. I find that, like your engineer Russell, that I rely on my wife's ears to tell me when I'm in tune. Just because the meter says it's "on", doesn't mean to say that the ears will.

The change in intonation when using altered tunings is also the reason I have a dedicated guitar for them it is intonated and strung perfectly for DADGad, my most used altered tuning. OK I can just replace the saddle and strings and it becomes a normal guitar. Mind you, try playing guitar with someone playing Northumberland pipes and all your careful intonation goes out the window!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=terken] ....I still have a little problem with keeping the wire in one place while I tighten
the string tp pitch. Takes a few trys. Any suggestions Michael?
Terry[/QUOTE]

I use the core of an old wound low E string cutoff that's hexagonal (I think). Seems to stay put a little better. Don't recall the brand name, though.burbank38877.5707638889

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

i first started intonating individual strings i after first read about the technique using a bit of old string in don teeter's first guitar repair book when it first came out back in the early '70's. stew-mac now makes a very handy gadget for doing the job.

in addition to the reservations voiced above, one also needs to take into account the owner's playing style, his standard of humidification control, etc., or else you will end up charging the client for work which will benefit him naught.