Official Luthiers Forum!

Colin, I hope you don't mind being singled out?
There was a lute maker at the convention, whose work was inspiring.
Of course, "Colin Symonds" came to mind.

The maker's name is John Butterfield, and here are some shots of his work:










How would you like to tune this beast?

Hope this is as enjoyable for those viewing as it was for us who were there.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Hope this is as enjoyable for those viewing as it was for us who were there.

Steve[/QUOTE]
Well, YEAH! Thanks, Steve. Did 'ya tell him about our Merry Band of Luthioids?

[QUOTE=CarltonM]   Did 'ya tell him about our Merry Band of Luthioids? [/QUOTE]

Carlton, I just can't remember. I did tell a number of people to check out this site, just not sure that this fellow was one of them. However, judging from the quality of his work, he would make a fine contribution to this community.

We need some OLF business cards....

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve,

I met John down here at the NW handmade instrument show. He was really nice, and played the lute for me, 1st time I heard one in person, and I loved it. I emailed him about Colin and the OLF but I never heard back from him. Maybe he didn't get my email, but I think I will try again.

Thanks for the pictures.

Jeff

Steve thanks for posting, that is a nice looking instrument, were firmly moving on into the Baroque here, although this would seem to be something of a transitional instument from the Renaissance ones, a sort of hybrid. The flying pegbox was part of the evolutionary move towards the Archlute and it's cousins. When you move further into the Baroque they become very ornamented with carved figures on the pegboxes, something I'm working on. I've never seen one of this period with a pierced pegbox cover (it actually harks back a bit), this may be a bit of license, but none the worse for that. Very nice Lute.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin, you mention the archlute, and that the one pictured here seems to be a precursor.
So, what qualifies an instrument to be an archlute?
Do they have very long strings?

Pardon the uninformed questions--I know next to nothing about lutes, other than they look and sound beautiful.

I thought you'd get a kick out of the peg box.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I personally think it doesn't have enough strings. I mean, add a dozen more so it can be a real challenge to tune.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

Yeah, and I'd always want to capo it on the 5th fret....

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

One must need such a plectrum to strum it all at once!

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Colin, you mention the archlute, and that the one pictured here seems to be a precursor.
So, what qualifies an instrument to be an archlute?
Do they have very long strings?

Pardon the uninformed questions--I know next to nothing about lutes, other than they look and sound beautiful.

I thought you'd get a kick out of the peg box.

Steve[/QUOTE]

Yes Steve they do have long strings, the diapsons on archlutes and theobros (the real behemoths of the lute world) could be more than 5 feet long. Archlutes typically had string lengths of 670mm for the main strings and 1420mm for the diapsons, theobros 830mm for the main strings and 1450mm for the diapsons.

Both were mainly used for continuo playing in consorts, one of my friends plays one in our little consort, and I have recorded a piece with it. It is usual that they they have three pegboxes with only the first having strings on the fingerboard. This is a picture of an original Brunner that I repaired some time ago to give you some idea, but others were much longer!



This is a very plain one, the Italian ones - you could have guessed - were very much more ornate and really represent the pinnacle of plucked instrument building. I'm at the planning and rehearsal stage of building one that will be inlaid in gold, silver and bone, with figurative carving on the pegboxes, and three roses. I think it will probably take some 2 or 3 years of work, but I will then be able to retire happy!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Thanks, Colin.
Mercy, all those tuners!
Are they Schallers, or Gotohs?   

It's certainly an attractive instrument, and an obvious challenge to build.
My crazed brain wonders, though, just how many more peg boxes could be stuck on there? You know, just run that bridge on out past the port side of the lute and keep 'em goin'.

Pardon me--I had 2 hours of sleep last night.

But no kidding, can you imagine tuning that thing?
I look forward to your finished archlute, at which point I'm sure a number of us will simply throw in the towel and walk quietly away shaking our heads in wonder.

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] [QUOTE=CarltonM]   Luthioids [/QUOTE]

Geeze Carlton does that mean if you put cream on us we go away........ [/QUOTE]
No, we just become less bothersome for a while; but we NEVER go away!

Here is a picture of a Theorbo..very unwieldy but very cool

Theorbos have an incredibly rich, huge sound. I've only heard them in recordings, but they must sound even better in person. It's time for a resurgence of the lute family, don't you think?

[QUOTE=CarltonM] Theorbos have an incredibly rich, huge sound. I've only heard them in recordings, but they must sound even better in person. It's time for a resurgence of the lute family, don't you think?[/QUOTE]

I've only played a theobro a couple of times but they do sound incredible, the best sounding ones have larger shells and soundboards than the one above and usually a triple rose. Theobros are really only continuo instruments though the archlute, can be played as a solo instrument more easily, but even then the 10-course is probably all that is really needed. I have recorded a courante with the Brunner archlute pictured above.

In my view the pinnacle of plucked instrument sound came with the Italian Renaissance/Baroque transitional period lutes with 10-13 courses, like my 10-course Venere or the 13-course one at the head of this thread.

As to a resurgence, well I'm trying!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin,

Are theorbos held like a guitar? Seems like they'd be a bear to hold that way.

BTW, love the second line in your sig!

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

[QUOTE=Colin S] As to a resurgence, well I'm trying!

Colin[/QUOTE]
And you're doing a fine job of it, too! Gotta somehow get more players interested, though. What do you think can be done to "modernize" the lute to make it more player-friendly without ruining the sound? The tuning stability issues have to be addressed, certainly--modern strings?

[QUOTE=Colin S]   Theobros are really only continuo instruments though the archlute, can be played as a solo instrument more easily, but even then the 10-course is probably all that is really needed.Colin[/QUOTE]

I think an artist-quality lute quartet would put contemporary listeners' jaws on the floor. Just thinking about gives me chills! CarltonM38898.6677314815

[QUOTE=burbank] Colin,

Are theorbos held like a guitar? Seems like they'd be a bear to hold that way.

QUOTE]

Pat, Are you sure you want to hold it like a Bear?

[QUOTE=CarltonM]

And you're doing a fine job of it, too! Gotta somehow get more players interested, though. What do you think can be done to "modernize" the lute to make it more player-friendly without ruining the sound? The tuning stability issues have to be addressed, certainly--modern strings?

I think an artist-quality lute quartet would put contemporary listeners' jaws on the floor. Just thinking about gives me chills! [/QUOTE]

There is now a gut substitute that sounds pretty good, (Listen to the MP3s from my recent 8-course) called Nylgut that retains tune much better than gut and is gaining greater acceptance from players. Apart from that trying to modernise the lute would just end up with the guitar!

Your right though the sound of the small consort I sometimes play in does make the hair stand up on the back of my neck, the sound is so beautiful.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Colin S]There is now a gut substitute that sounds pretty good, (Listen to the MP3s from my recent 8-course)[/QUOTE]
Yes, I remember now. That did sound quite good!

[QUOTE=Colin S]Apart from that trying to modernise the lute would just end up with the guitar!
[/QUOTE]
How about frets? Do they have to be moveable?

[QUOTE=CarltonM] It's time for a resurgence of the lute family, don't you think?[/QUOTE]

Carlton,

Sign me up! They are a wonderful instrument that I recently heard and came to appreciate. Poor Colin is probably going to get tired of me bothering him real soon.   

Jeff