BUMP!
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| FP question http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=7492 |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:14 am ] |
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Hi guys, i have applied 3 coats of FP on my top and i have some spots that are not as shiny as others, it looks uneven or should i say blotchy in different spots? What should i do with this please? Resand down to bare wood? TIA Serge |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:41 am ] |
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BUMP!
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:48 am ] |
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Serge: MichaelP knows more about this than me, but I would try a few more sessions. You are applying with a pad? Did you put down some shellac coats with a brush then sand those back? I think on a spruce top, it will take more coats than on a sealed set of back and sides. Fear not though, FP is VERY forgiving. -Mark |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:53 am ] |
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Thanks Mark, i apply my coats with a very clean cloth but did not sand them back, i'll try a fourth coat on the top but what if it looks the same after the 4th one, should i start thinking about sanding it down? |
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| Author: | MSpencer [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:01 am ] |
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MichaelP should be back in town soon, as I recall, he went to the Coast with his family for a little R&R. Mike White Oak, Texas Serge, I am still pretty sick, as you can see I have not left yetttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:19 am ] |
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 Yeah Mike, i see that both of us plus Hesh are incurable, hopeless cases of WAS!
Hey guys, here are a couple of pics that show what the top looks like, 
what are your thoughts? |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:31 am ] |
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Or is it just a build up thing and i'm just worrying for nuthin' as usual?? 
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:41 am ] |
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My best (inexperienced) guess would be that you are using too much oil. What are you using as a guide for FP? Milburn? Robbie's video? |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:44 am ] |
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Jon, no guide at all, just reading from the instructions from Lee Vally, small amounts and circular motion like explained, probably uneven motion or pressure on the cloth? 
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| Author: | Rod True [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:05 am ] |
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Serge, take a look at Orville and Robert Milburn's online tutorial. This will help much much better than Lee Valley's instructions. |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:33 am ] |
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I second what Rod says - I have this printed out and refer to it for technique, although I don't do the whole pumice fill thing. You only need a minimal amount of oil - like 1 drop, and then only if the pad is dragging, add shellac when you stop seeing the little comet trail that forms when things are going just right - 5 to 6 drops. Moderate pressure first, and continue with firmmer pressure as the shellac dispenses... I think it will be fine Serge - I know when I have done FP on raw wood, the top took longer to build up than the sides and back. Perhaps the spots that look blotchy are a little rougher than the rest of the top... -Mark |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:03 pm ] |
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Get Robbie's finishing DVD... I took the Brune class with Robbie, it's a much simpler method than the Milburn method from what I can tell, and I know it's less complicated than the Fernandez video. I'm probably going to order Robbie's video soon just as a refresher and to pick up other tips. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:34 pm ] |
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From what I can see, it's probably like Mark said. Maybe those spots are a little 'rougher' than the rest. What are you using for oil? I guess you can always try a few more sessions and if it doesn't get better you can always sand it down and try again. That's the beauty of FP.
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:38 pm ] |
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I agree with the "more build" verdict. Just keep at it. How did you do grain filling on the back and sides? I'm just now doing my first FP, with pumice, and it seems to be an infinite process so far. |
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| Author: | Tomas [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:44 pm ] |
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I would recommend using no oil at first and just building up shellac. At the begining also use very little alcohol, maybe a drop or two on your pad. Increase alcohol and beging using mineral oil the next session. Final coats again drop the mineral oil and use less and less shellac and more alcohol... |
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| Author: | SimonF [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:29 pm ] |
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Serge, Definitely check out Milburn's website. You don't want to use any oil at the beginning or it can stain the bare wood. I tend to have the pad fairly wet when I apply the first coat and let it "soak" in. You should develop a film fairly quickly. I can see crude reflections after 2 sessions. My sessions are pretty long tho' - a good 30 minutes non-stop for the top. You really want to build up a good finish before you start leveling. Be careful, the shellac sands very easily and you can take the finish back to bare wood in no time. Definitely give the Milburn website a very thorough read. You're almost there!!! Keep of the beautiful work. God bless friend, Simon |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:38 pm ] |
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Thanks everyone, today i sanded the whole guitar back to bare wood and applied 2 coats everywhere again, i'm gonna check the Milburn's tutorial since it's closer to what i'm doing, a lot of great tips from you guys, i'll keep you informed of my progress! I really appreciate evryone's help and encouragement! Thanks guys!
Serge |
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| Author: | Mark Tripp [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:47 pm ] |
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Cool Serge! You're gonna love the way FP looks on that gitar! Can't wait to see it with strings! -Mark |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:57 pm ] |
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Thanks Mark, soon i hope! I see i have a lot of reading and learning to do on Milburn's pages! 
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:39 pm ] |
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Hang in there with the FP, Serge! You'll get it. |
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| Author: | Michael McBroom [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:42 am ] |
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Serge, I'm still working on perfecting my fp technique, but I thought I'd pass along my experiences with this. I find that it is pretty common to have rough or uneven spots when I first begin fp'ing. I just continue to apply the shellac until I know I've built up a halfway decent amount of it. In this early stage of the process, I don't use any oil. Then I sand back lightly to smooth the finish with 320 grit and a firm foam pad, cleaning the paper often as it gets loaded up. I don't sand back down to bare wood. In my experience, the rough spots are caused by the grain being raised somewhat. Nice thing about the shellac is it fixes the grain in the raised position, so a light sanding gets rid of it. If you sand all the way back down to bare wood, you might end up raising the grain again with you next fp session. I have also had situations where the color becomes sort of uneven on the top with the first applications, almost blotchy looking. The unevenness begins to disappear with further applications of shellac. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:03 am ] |
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Serge, Are you mixing your own flakes or using a premixed brand? You mention three coats but unless I know your technique this doesn't tell me much. Are you using oil when applying? It appears to me from the little info you have given thus far and the picture that you need to build more. Three coats is not much build especially if you are using the method I show in my finishing DVD. Keep building and do not add oil and begin the polishing stage until you have enough build to do so. good luck. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:32 am ] |
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Thanks Todd, Michael and Robbie, i have purchased a premixed bran  sanded it all down again this morning, i just finished applying a first coat on the top once again and it looks better this time.
Thanks Michael, your technique is very interesting, i'll give it a try!
Thanks Robbie, no, i'm not using any oil and will follow your advice also!
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| Author: | CarltonM [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:33 am ] |
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Man, Serge, sorry I got here too late! That haze happened to me, too, and I also panicked. If it wasn't rough (like excess pumice), it was probably just oil. The test would have been easy. Make a new pad, put in a little bit of shellac and a lot of alcohol (though NOT dripping wet!), and then make quick, light-to-medium pressure strokes with the grain from one end of the guitar to the other. The haze would probably have disappeared. Do this at the end of every session and the haze will minimize, and then disappear at your final spirit-off. You really shouldn't have to sand an FP finish at any point (no, I'm not there yet, either ), because it's all one coat, not several like lacquer.
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:50 am ] |
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It's all good Carlton buddy, i just have to take my time and do it right, finishing has always been a PITA for me, it's the part i dislike the most and i understand fully those who send their guitars to TONY, that's what i would do if i could just afford it!
I'll see what comes up after this first layer of shellac all over, i'm wondering if it is possible to spray varathane over shellac? |
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