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Well, I got the bindings on (not pretty, but successfully, for a first kit), got the fretboard glued to the neck, so I thought I'd dry fit the neck to the body just to see what it's starting to look like. It's a bolt-on neck so easy to slip on and off. As I was sliding the neck onto the body, it would only go so far. With a little effort, I got it to go on all but about 1/8" before it wouldn't go any further. It would rock from side to side, but just wouldn't go the last bit to flush up with the body.

After inspecting it and thinking about it for a little while, it appears that the only place I can see where there is resistance is the underside of the fretboard where it overlays the top of the guitar. I think if I sand a little off of the fretboard overhang, right where the neck joins the guitar, I could probably get it to go on all the way.

First, would sanding a small amount off the underside of the fretboard cause bigger problems with the neck fit or bridge alignment? And what would cause this problem? The kit is a Stew-Mac dread, but the fretboard came from Martin (via Blues Creek Guitars). Is this a common problem?

Any and all help greatly appreciated!!


Thanks,
Mark









EDIT: Edited to shrink pictures to reasonable size.ms96038912.4111689815

Is it possible that the tenon is too long, and bottoming out in the mortise pocket? I don't think it's the tenon sides getting wedged in, or you wouldn't be able to rock the neck.

If the tenon is bottoming out, you can just chisel some material off the end until the heel seats fully on the guitar body.

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

From your pictures, it looks like your neck tenon is a bit too long for the
mortice in the neck joint.

See if the end of the tenon is hitting the neck block. If it is, just file it down.

It would be very unusual for the fretboard to be the problem

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Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com

First a little freindly advice about posting pictures. Try to resize your pictures so they are no wider than the screen so you don't have to scroll sideways to view them as this make it a pain to read the associated text, since it will be as wide as the picture.

Now, did the neck tenon fit all the way into the mortice befor the fingerboard was installed? Is the tenon just too long? Is it too tight? It looks like it is a pretty even short coming aall the way around so I'm thinking it's not binding but rather hitting something. Maybe the truss rod is hitting the block or binding up inside somewhere. maybe the hole for the truss rod is not big enough assuming the truss rod goes thru the bock and transverse brace that is. Try to take a picture with a little wider view so we can see the fingerboard and top a little better.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I agree with the others. I think it looks like the tennon is bottoming out on the mortise. I can't see how the fingerboard would cause this sort of issue. Truss rod could also be hitting something.

I second the others too....thats what it looks like!

If the tenon is too long and the threaded inserts are already glued in place, like most kits do, maybe you can re-route the mortice to acommodate the long tenon.

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

First, apologies for the huge pictures! I've shrunk them so they won't scroll off the screen. Thanks John.

As for the tenon hitting the mortise, I'm not sure. When I dry-fitted the neck prior to attaching the fingerboard, it went on all the way -- the tenon is not long enough to bottom out. I got a nice snug flush fit without the fretboard attached. The problem arose after I glued the fretboard onto the neck, so although it doesn't make sense. I do seem to recall that when the neck was dry fitted without the fretboard, there was a little lip between the guitar and the neck -- the neck was maybe 1/16" or less lower than the top of the guitar. Perhaps I could remove a very small amount of material from the top of the guitar, underneath where the fretboard will cover? At a loss.

As far as the truss rod, I've never installed one (obviously), but I did install it as per the instructions. I'll go back and double check, but if it's upside down, can it be removed and installed properly at this point? Here is a picture of the end of the neck showing the truss rod.





Thanks very much for the assistance!ms96038912.2688657407

Ok, we'll get this solved yet! Is is possible that the holes in your neckblock are out of alignmnet? When the fretboard is not on the bolts slide in fine (perhaps you didn't notice that the fb surface was sitting below the surface of the top) but then when something forces it to be flush (like a fingerboard) the holes no longer line up without cocking the neck.
If that's the case, you might try opening up the holes until it all fits right. Might require a larger washer on the inside but it shouldn't effect the guitar at all.
Good luck.

[QUOTE=ToddStock] Looks to me as though the truss rod is fine, and cannot be the cause of the problem. Assuming you've checked tenon depth, Paul's suggestion on opening up the bolt holes seems reasonable, since I think the neck is hanging up on the unthreaded portion of the neck bolts.

Here's a check you can do:

1. Measure distance of neck bolt centers below bottom of fretboard (example: 1-1/8", 2-1/2")

2. Measure distance from top (top of the top, as it were) to center of each hole in neck block (example: 1-3/16", 2-9/16")

Obviously, any difference will be a problem if the bolts and holes are close the same size. Opening the hole up to 3/8" would resolve the example's alignment issue.

You might start by slightly countersinking the neck holes with a 3/8" countersink - make the constant diameter portion of the countersunk hole a bit more than the remaining depth to go to seat the neck. This will address the interference with the unthreaded portions of the bolts (if this is the case).

Worst case is as Paul said - you end up with a 3/8" through hole and a larger washer on the inside under the nut.

Looks great - nice shape on the heel, and the side purflings are going to look very classy. Good luck!

Todd

[/QUOTE]
Todd (and Paul),

Very good suggestion! I hadn't thought that the unthreaded portion of the bolts might be binding up in the holes of the neck block. Unfortunately, I just got to work, so I will have to wait about 10 painful hours before I can put this theory to the test :(.

If I do find out that the unthreaded portions of the bolts are binding on the neck block, you suggested counter sinking the neck holes. I doesn't sound like your suggestion calls for enlarging the holes in the neck block all the way through -- just widening (via a countersink) the opening where the bolts enter the neck block. Do I have that correct?

Thanks for the compliments. I haven't cleaned up the body after gluing in the bindings yet, but I am excited to see how it looks once I do.

Again, thanks very much for the great help and assistance!

No, I'd go ahead and widen the entire hole. (well, I guess it depends on where and how much the bolts are binding). You're not going to hurt anything by opening them to 3/8" as long as the nuts have something to seat against (washers).

As well, doesnt look like you have done this yet - the inner face of the heel needs to be scalloped - leave about 1/8 inch around the perimiter of the heel, and scallop in towards your tenon, all the way around - the face of the guitar body where the heel sits is curved not flat, and you will need to do this to get the heel to fit tight. Once the scalloping is done, then you can do the pull sandpaper technique to get the joint snug, and seated in the correct alignment.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

[QUOTE=TonyKarol] As well, doesnt look like you have done this yet - the inner face of the heel needs to be scalloped - leave about 1/8 inch around the perimiter of the heel, and scallop in towards your tenon, all the way around - the face of the guitar body where the heel sits is curved not flat, and you will need to do this to get the heel to fit tight. Once the scalloping is done, then you can do the pull sandpaper technique to get the joint snug, and seated in the correct alignment.[/QUOTE]

Tony,

The instructions with my kit make no mention of scalloping the area around the heel. Probably not included to simplify the kit. I think I understand your instructions -- can you post a picture, or point me to one, so I can see what this looks like when completed?

Thanks so much,
Mark

Its an old pic, when I used to do an all bolt neck, but you can clearly see the "rim" around the inner heel face.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

[QUOTE=ToddStock] What Tony said - I shoot for about 3/32" -1/8" width on the unscalloped portion. This makes the sandpaper pull (fitting) technique work a lot better as well.

Re: countersink: I would recommend using a countersink or reamer to open the hole to 3/8", then follow with a 3/8" bit for the through hole. The reamer or countersink will keep the hole centered and allowing the 3/8" bit to start the cut fully seated in the proper diameter hole. [/QUOTE]

The scalloping of the neck heel sounds difficult, and fraught with dangers (for a rookie, at least), but I will make an attempt.

One question: a couple of you have mentioned using washers on the neck bolts. The kit was not supplied with washers, which I assume was an oversight. The obvious question is should I get washers to fit the neck bolts? This is the first I've heard of using washers.

Mark,

You might want to get one of John Mayes' instructional dvds on setting the neck. I struggled with the same thing on my first, then bought the dvd on setting necks and double mortice joints. It helped me figure out a few of the things I did the hard way on guitar #1.

Wayne

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53% of all statistics are made up on the spot
http://driftwoodguitars.blogspot.com/

I'm a newbie too, but I can offer a slight bit of advice as I faced this same task not long ago. Keep these things in mind: find a way to make sure the neck heel is fully supported, and firm. That way you can use two hands to manipulate the chisel. Make sure your chisel is SHARP, there is no substitute for the ease of cut with a truly sharp chisel. Go slow, don't be in a hurry. This was my biggest challenge, as I'm impatient by nature. Scribe a line around the outside of the heel for use as a mark - I used the 3/32 width, but 1/8 would probably be better. Then make certain your cuts don't exceed your line.

Bill

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Is your top cut out for the top of the tennon or is the tennon going in under the top? The top has to be cut out so the the top of the tennon and the guitar top are flush under the fretboard extension.

I usually have to elongate the holes in the neck block for the truss rod and two bolts. I do this with a small, tound file/rasp.[/QUOTE]

I've cut out the top so the tennon and the guitar top are flush under the fretboard. Actually, there is a small difference, maybe 1/32", but the top is definitely cut out.

One other question, now that I think of it. When I dry fit the neck, is the brace on the neck side of the soundhole supposed to be cut, or have a hole in it, to allow access to the truss rod? With the neck dry-fit, I cannot see the truss rod through the sound hole -- all I see is that brace (circled in yellow below).

Yup, there should be a hole in the middle of that brace. That is, unless the truss rod was designed to be adjusted at the headstock.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

[QUOTE=JBreault] Yup, there should be a hole in the middle of that brace. That is, unless the truss rod was designed to be adjusted at the headstock.[/QUOTE]
Nope, not designed to be adjusted at the headstock. Great, now that the top is attached, how do I get that hole there? I just reviewed the instructions with the kit -- says nothing about putting a hole in the middle of that brace ms96038912.4442361111

Mark, I hope you drilled a hole through the upper transverse brace or you won't have access to adjust the truss rod.

It could be that your truss rod is hitting the "popcicle" brace and not allowing the neck to sit all the way down in the mortise. Maybe you could rub a pencil lead on the rod and push it in and then use a mirror to see if it leaves a mark on the brace.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I forgot to drill that hole once myself. Went to Ace hdwr and picked up a long drill bit and managed to drill it from the neck mortise.
So don't panic, it's still do-able.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars