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I was having a discussion with Michael Greenfield last week about filling with egg whites. My interest was piqued to say the least. It's cheap, easy, and healthy. He says it dries absolutely rock hard and lasts forever (after all the Sistine Chapel ceiling is painted with an egg based medium called Fresco). So, has anyone tried this?
I think I'm going to give it a few test shots to see how it goes.

I had the same conversation with Julius Borges last year, he really likes it for Koa and wood that have that size pores. I have a Koa body ready for filling within the next few weeks and am thinking about trying it. Julius's finish is fantastic by the way if you haven't had the oportunity to see one.Jim_W38915.5140277778

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

[Quote=Pwoolson]healthy[/QUOTE]

Yup! Lower in cholesterol and high in protein!


Let us know how it works Paul.

-Mark

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Really? Now THAT is interesting...

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[QUOTE=Jim_W] I had the same conversation with Julius Borges last year, he really likes it for Koa and wood that have that size pores. I have a Koa body ready for filling within the next few weeks and am thinking about trying it. Julius's finish is fantastic by the way if you haven't had the oportunity to see one.[/QUOTE]

In fact, Julius' finishes are the best I've ever seen. He's painstaking. The guy does everything right. He's also probably the best builder I know, bar none. I couldn't begin to go into all the things he does to achieve the finishes he does.

I once saw a guitar he had just brought up from the buffer...it was an OM-45, with gorgeous BRW. The thing was something to behold. The finish was dead flat, and had the most perfect look to it. No sign of buff marks or anything. It took my breath away.

As far as I'm concerned, the man sets the standard for all of us to try to achieve. You would have to see it to believe it, and I've seen it.

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Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams]
In fact, Julius' finishes are the best I've ever seen. He's painstaking. The guy does everything right. He's also probably the best builder I know, bar none. I couldn't begin to go into all the things he does to achieve the finishes he does.

I once saw a guitar he had just brought up from the buffer...it was an OM-45, with gorgeous BRW. The thing was something to behold. The finish was dead flat, and had the most perfect look to it. No sign of buff marks or anything. It took my breath away.

As far as I'm concerned, the man sets the standard for all of us to try to achieve. You would have to see it to believe it, and I've seen it.[/QUOTE]

Your right Don, his finish is great but I saw one of his personal guitars last year at ASIA that he was playin outside. I beleive he said his son had finished it for him and it was just a couple thin coats of shellac over the top on a fairly well scratched up guitar. It looked like it had been played several years before the finish had been applied. The guitar really sounded great.John How38915.5308912037

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I believe that Joshua uses it, I'm sure I have discussed it with him some time ago, it is an old system used by the Cremonese builders, as a conditioner as much as filler, (which I don't think it would be very good for), on the soundboards of their violins. I always use it on the soundboard of my lutes, haven't done so on a guitar yet.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I have used egg white for sizing surfaces before applying a finish but I haven't used it for pore filling

Colin, from my discussion with Michael, he said that you mix up a slurry of egg white while sanding with 320 which inturn mixes the dust from the wood into the whites. Then that is worked into the pores and sets up very hard and natural looking.

Paul that would work. I do like it as a size, like Robbie says, especially on tops. I'm planning to use it on all my spruce tops, as I like what it does to my very thin lute soundboards. It seems to harden and stiffen the board prior to finishing. The idea of using it while sanding has some appeal, I might give it a try on my uppcoming FE19 homage, more in keeping with the period than Z-poxy!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

[QUOTE=Pwoolson] Colin, from my discussion with Michael, he said that you mix up a slurry of egg white while sanding with 320 which inturn mixes the dust from the wood into the whites. Then that is worked into the pores and sets up very hard and natural looking. [/QUOTE]

Would you like some home fries with that?

Paul

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Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

[QUOTE=Pwoolson]...mix up a slurry of egg white while sanding with 320 which inturn mixes the dust from the wood into the whites.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm...how about pumice and egg whites? I wonder....

Julius uses the sanding into a slurry method on the Koa. Not just egg white.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

So you basically sand the egg whites into the wood?

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

I have done a few guitars with egg whites.

first consideration, it will tint the color of your wood sligtly, so test on scrap first to make sure you like the tint.
(it seems to make koa sorta green to my eye.)

also, do it about 3 times to be sure you get it level, the pores really look level after the first time you sand so dont be fooled!

also dont do to much real estate at a time,stuff dries quick....and is really hard to sand, do sqweegee while its wet or you`ll pay dearly....dont ask.

Julius has been very kind to share his finish techniques with us. I owe a lot to him.

this time around I am going to try pre-mixing some dust into the egg white to make a paste first, and pushing that in.... we`ll see.

Wonder how well it buffs out. Rod True38915.6691203704

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Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "That Guitar Looks Good Enough To Eat!"....

I'd worry about it's long term stability, it is organic after all. That's why I like epoxy, doesn't shrink and it stays stable...

-Paul-

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Patriot Guitars

Wow, very interesting!! any idea how to do it?

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

So the idea is to just use it as a binder rather than the bulk of the filler, right?

Rookie question: Sizing?

-j.

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The pore filler I have always used is egg whites. When I started building the only book on guitar building was A.P. Sharpe's Make your own Spanish Guitar. In it under finishing the only filler he mentions is "Alabastine" and because I didnt (and still dont) know what it is, the only other book I could find was an old book on building violins. In it egg whites are mentioned both for sizing and pore filling so that is what I used.

Geza Burghardt at the last previous GAL conference mentioned that if you want to tint egg whites that coffee made from chicory (as in New Orleans Cafe Au Lait) can be used to "tone" the egg white.

I would not worry about its stability...egg tempura painting have lasted for centuries where as inorganic substances used in painting and finishing do not last. I understand all of the potential benefits and coolness of things like Zpoxy, but doubt that over time it will exceed that of egg whites.

That said, be careful to not use too think a coat or too many coats of egg whites or it can leave a white residue in the pore that does not look good. The key is quick coat (because of fast drying time), sand flush and then apply again to hit any spots not up to level.

Matt is right...it can look level but not quite. Make sure to get all dust off so you can see clearly if it is filled. I cleaned and then use a tack rag to make sure and then reapply.

While not all of the finishing tricks and applications that are done for violin family instruments can be applied to guitars, there is alot that can be learned by reading about how they are finished. Even my french polish is tempered with gum resins (Geza's formula) and gives a faster build and harder surface for french polish without leaving a thicker surface finish. This is a traditional violin finish adapted to french polishing.Shawn38915.7235532407

like sizing a shirt when ironing, sealing the outer fibers for give a firm outer surface

Look up vernice bianca and you will find some recipies for an old violin
finish. It has egg whites, sugar or syrup and gelatin.

It is a different thing than filling the pores but it will give you some
interesting info. I use it to get my varnish to stick to my ground on bass
violin finishes. It forms a "membrane" that allows the varnish to stick to
the
ground. My ground has bees wax and the varnish won't stick. But the
vernice
bianca makes it work.

On my last project that I used it the membrane broke on the back and the
back and the varnish is peeling off in a big area

I doubt I will use it again.

As for pore filling I would think it would form a nice hard surface. I would
be sure to sand all the way back to wood though.

KenMcKay38915.7295486111

[QUOTE=Sprockett]

I'd worry about it's long term stability, it is organic after all.
[/QUOTE]

I guess maybe we shouldn't use wood, hide glue or shellac either then?


.johno38915.7410648148

Who's Bass design are you building?

I am just starting the roughing out of a Carlo Giuseppe Testore design which I like because a flat back is easier and faster to build. Because he had different forms (at least attributed to him), the model I am building from has very sloped as opposed to a broad upper bout as for me it helps me to reach the higher positions.

I am familiar with Vernice Bianca...There are alot of great old materials and techniques that get overlooked in favor of lacquer and such but for lutes, classical and historic guitars and violin family instruments, tradition materials are the way to go.

My wife is an artist who works as a copyist at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, DC specializing in the Northern European Renaissance Masters. In duplicating paintings of that period we grind the pigments for the oil paints and then match the mediums and varnishes used for the period as well. Sometimes it looks like we are doing chemistry experiments in our dining room but unless you use the materials appropriate to the artist and period it will not look or feel right.

To cool Shawn, to cool

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson