Is it bit ironic that the whole reason for adding the poisonous ingredient to DA was to make the stuff undrinkable so that you would not kill yourself by means of alcohol poisoning. Not sure this on was well thought thru
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| KTM-9 Question http://w-ww.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=762 |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:28 pm ] |
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Ok weathers clearing up and I can start shooting my closet full of guitars that have been there waiting, however before I do I have one concern about spraying a water based finish.. Since work is crazy right now I might miss a couple of days between spraying sessions, on McFaddens you could go forever between coats and get a good burn in. But what about KTM-9?, my McFaddens schedule was a bit bizaar because things kept pulling me away, but I never worried because lacquer has good burn-in quality. Anyone have any experience with this before I start spraying?? I don't want to deal with witness lines when I sand this down and polish it... Thanks -Paul- |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:45 pm ] |
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Paul, you don't have much time between coats. I'd say 24 hours is the longest I'd wait. Even if you put down a coat of denatured, waiting much longer will give you lots of problems. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Jan 18, 2005 11:27 pm ] |
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And yet...... I've put down coats weeks afterward and had no problems. Of course something might surface later, but I didn't have any adhesion issues at all. Alcohol, such as Everclear, seems to work well at softening the finish enough to give the new coat a bite. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:19 am ] |
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Ive waited no more than 3 days between coats, sprayed with da before applying the next coat, and had no problems.. |
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| Author: | Tim McKnight [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:01 am ] |
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Do you allow the DA to flash off and dry before applying the next coat of finish or spray while still wet. My hunch says to let it flash off. Do you scuff sand too? |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:05 am ] |
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No scuff sanding, I sand every 4 coats. I shoot the DA and wait until it drys, or until i see its all evaporated, then I hit it with the KTM9. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:18 am ] |
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I thought I had some problems from waiting to long with waterborne once. but when I polished all the witness lines buffed right out. I am with Lance If I spray more than 24 hours later I spray with DA first. I let it flash off, after all the intent is to soften the previous applied film. Then spray coating. I lightly sand about every fourth coat with 400-800 just to maintain level about 24 hours after spraying. I have had some burn through issues and had to drop fill. Even there the witness lines buffed right out. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:44 am ] |
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Ok thanks for the feedback, I think I can manage to keep it under 24 hours if nothing more than to just drop another coat on. I missed the DA step in Doolins notes, one more question is are you mixing it in or spraying DA and then applying the new coats? Just want to make sure I get this right the first time ;) Thanks -Paul- |
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:16 am ] |
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If I do more than one coat per day I use DA before the first coat, sprayed on by itself undiluted, not enough to run and you have to be carefull here because it is very thin. Then I apply the other coats at ~1 hour intervals up to about 4 coats. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:45 am ] |
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Hey Guys, this seems like an appropriate time to mention the hazards of Denatured Alcohol. The stuff is extremely dangerous to be breathing the fumes. Put those cans away and use grain alcohol instead. It's a lot more expensive, but the fumes won't kill you... |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:00 am ] |
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Is it bit ironic that the whole reason for adding the poisonous ingredient to DA was to make the stuff undrinkable so that you would not kill yourself by means of alcohol poisoning. Not sure this on was well thought thru
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:01 am ] |
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Good idea Don, Thanks |
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| Author: | Ron Priest [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:23 am ] |
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Can you use methyl hydrate instead of DA or Grain alcohol? I used it on KTM-4 (couldn't buy denatured alcohol up here). It didn't seem to hurt the finish and it allowed the finish to get tacky. If I was to buy grain alcohol what is the best type? Certainly a lot of different answers in how to do KTM-9. Personal preference I guess. By the way Z-poxy and Systems3 are they different manufacturers or just different products by the ame people? Do they have a different look when finished. I find it hard to keep up on all the different types of finishes that go with what. Hey maybe we can start a book of finishes for guitars.  A compilation list that may never end.
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:48 pm ] |
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Don where do you find grain alcohol? And Michael's right, the whole point of going to this was to not poison myself... Life's dangerous enough as it is ;) -Paul- |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:40 am ] |
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Over on MIMF someone posted a place where you can buy it mail order... I forget where... but search their library. You might be able to find it. We can't buy pure grain in Ohio, and I know some other states are like that too. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:43 am ] |
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I get mine from a licquor store. I've bought one bottle of alcohol in my lifetime...and that's it! I believe the Everclear is the name or something like that. It is 97% alcohol, and I think 3% water. Otherwise it's moonshine.... |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:50 am ] |
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Ron, The Z-poxy has a nice amber tint to it, it really warms the wood and pops the grain. I believe the system 3 is clear. Here is some coco coated with z-poxy 
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:07 am ] |
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I know the subject here is finishing... but dude.... that dark purfling line against that sap wood is GREAT! |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:22 am ] |
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Try this link. Beer Liquors I've never delt with this company. This is just what I got with a quick google search. |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:28 am ] |
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Ohhhh it's just everclear!!!! OK THAT stuff  I'm sure I can find it now, nasty stuff it is too, good to know it has other uses than being mixed in with gatorade...
-Paul- |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:40 am ] |
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Gee Lance, that's a boring looking guitar.... You're not charging someone for that are you?  |
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| Author: | Don A [ Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:44 am ] |
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They were just talking about this over at the AG Mag Luthier Forum. Grain alcohol |
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