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400+ tentellones later...pics
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Author:  John Elshaw [ Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:35 pm ]
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Well, staying true with the Hauser building style, I glued over 400 individual tentellones on today attaching the tops to the sides. I figured I'd post a few pics before I close up the boxes. I still have some cleanup work to do, but the big job is over. You'll notice one of the guitars already has a solid lining glued on the back. That should help make things go much quicker. Each of these guitars is the same basic plan, however I'm experimenting with a few things to see if it makes a difference in the finished guitar. Enjoy!

John







Author:  James Orr [ Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:26 pm ]
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Woah! Such meticulous work! Good job, man!
Author:  JBreault [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:39 am ]
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Looking good John. So are these going to be slide classicals? Those necks are looking awefully big...
Author:  vpelleri [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:55 am ]
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Very impressive. I hope you didn't get tentellitus placing all those wedges! What different things are you trying?
Author:  Jeff Doty [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:10 am ]
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John,

Beautiful work. What variables are you testing? I see the larger tail block on one of the 3, is that something you are testing? Also, is that maple back and sides on the middle one? Did you use hide glue?

Please keep posting pictures as you work on them.

Jeff
Author:  Sprockett [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:24 am ]
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Gads I hate doing Tentellones, nobody makes them so you have to cut them yourself, then you have to hold each one till the glue sets. I've still got a container full of them from my last classical :)

The guitars look nice, one thing that I starting doing was carving my heel before I attached the sides, and I would cut my neck sides down to the shape. I found it just made doing the guitar easier and I didn't risk wrecking my sides :)

Looking good...

-Paul-
Author:  John Elshaw [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:57 am ]
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Yes, the tailblocks are slightly smaller on two of them. I'm trying to see how light I can go without compromising integrity. Also, you will notice the bottom two "V" fan braces are gone that are typical on a '37 Hauser. This is a modification made by Hauser III that I am trying for the frst time. All my previous Hausers had the lower V braces. Also, you can't see it but there are differences in top thickness--again trying to see how light I can build without compromising integrity. And finally, there are the obvious wood differences--cedar/rosewood, spruce/rosewood, and spruce/quilted maple. These are probably too many differences as the guitars will be quite different based on wood selection alone. But, my main reason is to see how light I can build the guitars without them falling apart. I've never built a guitar for commission so these will eventually hang on my wall and hopefully provide good data for future builds.

Cheers!

John
Author:  John Elshaw [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:05 am ]
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[QUOTE=Sprockett] one thing that I starting doing was carving my heel before I attached the sides, and I would cut my neck sides down to the shape. I found it just made doing the guitar easier and I didn't risk wrecking my sides :)

[/QUOTE]

That's how I used to do it also. This time around I am trying it Robbie O'Brien's way from his dvd. I like the simple elegence of carving it after the fingerboard is on.   I've never been completely satisfied with the heel in the past, and I'm hoping doing it this way will improve my results. You are right though, I will be nervous carving around the heelblock.

As a side note--there are many steps in these three that I have done differently following Robbie's dvd. I really like some of the different options Robbie presents in building. He has some very simple, elegent ways to do things I've struggled with in the past. I think I will stick with a good bit of his techniques for future builds and incorporate them with some of the other methods I already have.

Cheers!

John
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:34 am ]
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John,

Looking good! I'm curious to read about whether or not there is a detectable difference between your guitars with the V-braces and those without. On the 7-fan pattern guitars I built, I always installed the V braces.

You're a braver man than I regarding the carving of the neck heel. I find I always have to do a bit of extra shaping to the heel after the sides are attached. Gut-check time for me. Sometimes I'll even lay down a layer of masking tape on the sides next to the heel to prevent accidental gouges. But that won't really be an option for you. Good luck! And I'd really be interested in seeing how you go about it.

Paul,

I find that I don't have to hold each tentellone til the glue sets. I use Titebond, and push each one in place, and as I'm installing them, I go back over the ones I've already installed and push on them again to make sure they're still snug. A few days ago, I had to remove the top of a guitar I'm currently building (long story), and I found that the tentellone glue joints had been very solid. No tentellones came loose from the sides and the soundboard spruce separated without pulling away from the tentellones.

Best,

Michael

Author:  Sprockett [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:51 am ]
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[QUOTE=Michael McBroom] John,

Looking good! I'm curious to read about whether or not there is a detectable difference between your guitars with the V-braces and those without. On the 7-fan pattern guitars I built, I always installed the V braces.

You're a braver man than I regarding the carving of the neck heel. I find I always have to do a bit of extra shaping to the heel after the sides are attached. Gut-check time for me. Sometimes I'll even lay down a layer of masking tape on the sides next to the heel to prevent accidental gouges. But that won't really be an option for you. Good luck! And I'd really be interested in seeing how you go about it.

Paul,

I find that I don't have to hold each tentellone til the glue sets. I use Titebond, and push each one in place, and as I'm installing them, I go back over the ones I've already installed and push on them again to make sure they're still snug. A few days ago, I had to remove the top of a guitar I'm currently building (long story), and I found that the tentellone glue joints had been very solid. No tentellones came loose from the sides and the soundboard spruce separated without pulling away from the tentellones.

Best,

Michael

[/QUOTE]

On my last one I switched to hide glue for the tentellones and found that if you get a good even layer you can hold them for a shorter time and the glue would draw them in tighter (kind of like violin makers do).

Now if I could just get someone to make them I'd be all set

-Paul-

BTW: This is why I put the backs on my steel strings last, I did classicals first and I liked being able to double check the top joints and adjusting the heel height before I glue the back on. When something works I don't like to change it
Author:  old man [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:53 am ]
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Great job! I sure am appreciative of kerffed lining now.

Ron
Author:  CarltonM [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:56 am ]
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[QUOTE=John Elshaw] I glued over 400 individual tentellones on today[/QUOTE]
You've done a manly job!

It's all looking very good!
Author:  CarltonM [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:00 am ]
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[QUOTE=Sprockett]Now if I could just get someone to make them I'd be all set. [/QUOTE]
Hmmm...that's not a bad idea. It seems like someone with a gang saw that's already doing kerfed linings could just cut 'em all the way through and push 'em into a box. Any takers?
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:59 am ]
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Making your own tents isn't really that big of a deal. It takes a little while, but it's not so bad. I've got a lot of mahogany that I've scavanged that isn't good for braces or necks or anything else, so I cut it up into strips of the correct width and height on my bandsaw, pass it through the drum sander a few times to get rid of the saw marks. At that point I have long strips that are approximately 5/8" tall by 1/4" wide or so. Then I cut the strips into more manageable lengths for planing, and plane a radius on one of the corners, then sand the radius smooth. At that point the strip looks like the rounded kerfing without the slots. Next I fire up the bandsaw and just cut tents from the strip. I eyeball it. Some end up being a bit wider or narrower than others, but sometimes this comes in handy when fitting the final tent into place next to the heel or the tail block.

I usually do enough for several guitars when it's time to cut more, probably takes me an hour all told.

Best,

Michael
Author:  Don A [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:35 am ]
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Any reason not to use kerfed linings? It seems you could make your own linings and use a small dado blade to cut the kerfs if extra distance is needed between the blocks. Being a non-classical builder, someone educate me on the reason for using individual tentellones. Is it just for the sake of tradition or is there tonal advantages.
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:36 pm ]
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looking good John!! When gluing tentellones your high tech glue spreading device doubles as a high tech clamping device as well!
Author:  CarltonM [ Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:45 pm ]
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Michael,

No bandsaw, no tablesaw, no drum sander in my work area.    Gotta do it all by hand, so you can imagine the daunting task of sawing individual blocks from kerfed or solid linings.

Don,

In the traditional method of classical guitar building the neck is joined to the sides first. Then the top is attached to the sides, face down, with individual blocks. Solid or kerfed linings wouldn't work here because there's no room for clamps. Besides, there's a philosophy of building in play here that says this "stress-free" method of attaching the top results in a more responsive instrument. As for the extra distance between the tentellones, that's a personal choice. Some builders pack 'em close together.
Author:  Michael McBroom [ Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:06 am ]
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Just to add to what Carlton wrote --

I have seen some classical builds where the builder joins the neck to the sides first, then installs kerfing strips. Then the kerfing surfaces that the top will be glued to are leveled -- by using a sanding board or something similar. Then the top is installed using bands or rope or spool clamps, etc.

I've always done it the way Cumpiano shows in his book: attach the neck to the top first, then set the sides in place and attach the top to the sides with tentellones. As long as I continue to build in this fashion, tents are really the only practical way to do it.

Best,

Michael
Author:  CarltonM [ Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:26 am ]
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Oops, Michael, you've reminded me that I forgot! Your method of joining the top to the neck first, followed by the sides, is the traditional way, and, as you've said, the reason why tentellones is the only way to go.
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